Originally posted by Bad wolfIn certain places in the United States, religion is taken to an extreme, just like it can be any where in Europe and especially the Middle East. But half the country is moderate in their religion. For every religious community you will also find one that's the complete opposite.
[b]Honey, instead of worrying about what's wrong with the United States, please clean up your own backyard. You use the United States as an example in every one of your posts where you want to ban something, where England has the exact same "problems." Plus, you know nothing about life in the United States, so how on Earth can you possibly make huge assumpt ...[text shortened]... without even confronting it.
But I may be wrong.
My boyfriend went to a Catholic school from an early age (even though both his parents were atheists). From what he tells me, religion didn't play much of a part in school, aside from prayer. To most kids though, prayer really means nothing. When I was a kid, I prayed because I was told to, not because I was a Christian or because it had some significant meaning to me. Plus, religious schools talk about other religions, but focus on the one they specialize in because they know that these children are more likely to become a follower of that faith.
So a Christian preacher is supposed to teach Islam for his sermon? The reason why people bring their children to church is to learn about the religion they think would best benefit their child. All children learn about other religions when they go to a public school, because it's part of history (which shows the good and the bad sides to every religion).
At Christian Camp they did talk about other religions, and encouraged us not to discriminate against them. One of the counselors said that their understanding of God is not better or worse than ours, just different, and it does not matter by what name you call your God.
Learning of other people's experiences does not bias a child. If anything it might help them learn from other people's mistakes. And every single testimony never started out with how great God was, but mearly personal experiences. One man exlained how the Bible teaches about sexual immorality, not to save your soul, but to try to warn you. He then told us how his sexual experiences changed his life for the worst (he contracted a virus). He also explained how this might not happen with every person who is sleeping around, but how it's important not to take the risk, and in the end, God's more concerned about us than what we did.
And again, the counselors exlained that God comes in many different forms for people all over the world, and ours isn't any more right than anybody else's. The only thing that set ours apart was we believe in a physical version of God also.
And it's not repitition, because each night they'd touch base on a different subject, or a different experience (if it was the same thing over and over they couldn't hold a 7 year old's attention for very long).
Did those children from the link you provided not know about evolution? They know what it teaches, and this is why they're in a different school. They have made their decision about what faith they want to be part of. Just because they do not accept the theory of evolution doesn't mean they've been brainwashed into never accepting it.
You generally don't see 7 year olds wearing crosses or other religious symbols (other than in Middle Eastern religions). Sometimes you might see a funny shirt on one, referencing God, but that's it. And again, these symbols mean very little to someone who's younger. To a 7 year old it's nothing more than a pretty necklace or a funny shirt.
I think that most people go through a time in their life, whether it be when they are 13 or 30, where they question their faith and sometimes even lose it. I haven't heard a single Christian say that they've never wondered if God really exists only to a more severe degree. It's part of the Christian faith, having hurdles to cross (which Everybody does) and still believing.
I think we should start a thread in the Spirituality Forum asking if people have ever questioned their faith, strayed from their religion, etc.
Originally posted by Remora91Well said!!!
In certain places in the United States, religion is taken to an extreme, just like it can be any where in Europe and especially the Middle East. But half the country is moderate in their religion. For every religious community you will also find one that's the complete opposite.
My boyfriend went to a Catholic school from an early age (even though both h ...[text shortened]... eople have ever questioned their faith, strayed from their religion, etc.
Couldn't agree more !!!!
🙂
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3 edits
Originally posted by Remora91All children learn about other religions when they go to a public school, because it's part of history (which shows the good and the bad sides to every religion).
In certain places in the United States, religion is taken to an extreme, just like it can be any where in Europe and especially the Middle East. But half the country is moderate in their religion. For every religious community you will also find one that's the complete opposite.
My boyfriend went to a Catholic school from an early age (even though both h eople have ever questioned their faith, strayed from their religion, etc.
- I can't comment on how it is set up there, but here I think it is wofully inadequate, only 1 hour each weak was dedicated to it, and the material was poor and limited/narrow.
Did those children from the link you provided not know about evolution? They know what it teaches, and this is why they're in a different school.
- No they were in a different school because the parent didn't like what was being taught, not the child.
They have made their decision about what faith they want to be part of.
Just because they do not accept the theory of evolution doesn't mean they've been brainwashed into never accepting it.
- To quote the article:
He is appalled by some home-schooling textbooks, especially those on biology that claim they have scientific reasons for rejecting evolution. "They have gross scientific inaccuracies in them," he says. "They would not be allowed in any public school in the US, and yet these are the books primarily featured in home-schooling bookstores."
One such textbook is Science of the Physical Creation from A Beka Book, a leading retailer of home-schooling books based in Pensacola, Florida. It argues: "Evolution is a concept that attempts to free man from God and his responsibility to his Creator." Alters worries for the students who learn from such texts (see "Book learnin'" ). "If they go on to secular university, home-schoolers are in for some major surprises when they get into an introductory biology class."
Essentially the parents were using textbooks that were wrong, big inaccuracies in them, and using biology books with phrases 'Evolution is a concept that attempts to free man from God and his responsibility to his Creator' in them.
I can't think of anything else other than to call this brainwashing...
Your rest of your post is seems pretty reasonably, I guess you have convinced me on those areas...
especially in the camp area, I had no idea...
Are their camps like the ones I were thinking of? I think I remember something about it.
I think we should start a thread in the Spirituality Forum asking if people have ever questioned their faith, strayed from their religion,
etc.
- Sounds good.
edit: in response to the talking about other religions in camp, did they ever mention atheism or agnosticism?
Clearly just talking about God in all of the different religions is very, well, biased. 😵
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Originally posted by Bad wolflol
Oh, everyone, I want you to all realise that I am playing 'devil's advocate' at the moment, I have a lots of thoughts I need to consider on this, I don't really know what to think.
🙂
Now there's a shocker. Hang on a moment while I compose myself. I am kind of speechless thinking that you don't know what to think. My shock comes in the realization that you still haven't noticed that you don't know HOW to think.
Just kiddin.
Regarding "brainwashing"... since I worked my way out of it, I have developed a different attitude towards it. I now see it a a means toward salvation of a lost soul. It gave me a direction to put my hate when working through the blood and violence of an old man who never was drunk, but beat on us children and our mother two to three times a week until I was 16 and finally managed to take away his hunting rifle he had stuffed in my mothers mouth and knock him silly with the butt end of it.
Then, as a young adult, I couldn't focus on this anger because a lot of it was directed at my siblings and my mother. This isn't rational, but that's abuse for you. Getting your head on straight is a long, painful process. So how was being brainwashed into mormonism a blessing and a route for obtaining sanity?
I could intellectually face the question "where did God come from and where the hell was he when I needed him so desparately"? It occupied my mind until I got angry. This was rather subliminal I realize now. But in finding I could reject the church, I then could face my anger with my mom and siblings and work through the real problems.
I forgave myself. (It's a long story). Then my mom. Then my siblings. But never my father. I then thought about forgiving the church and God, but I still had that Occums razor hanging in my mind and couldn't for the life of me force the added complexity of "god" into my mind.
So... religion can serve more than the obvious purpose of worship. It can be an underlying force anchoring your mind should you lose the will to live. So what if the force is hate? Sometimes you just have to work with what you have.
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Originally posted by StarValleyWySorry about that...you've made a good point there.
lol
Now there's a shocker. Hang on a moment while I compose myself. I am kind of speechless thinking that you don't know what to think. My shock comes in the realization that you still haven't noticed that you don't know HOW to think.
Just kiddin.
Regarding "brainwashing"... since I worked my way out of it, I have developed a different attitud ...[text shortened]... So what if the force is hate? Sometimes you just have to work with what you have.
Do you think everyone is capable of thinking like this, or better yet willing to do so?
I think this is paramount.
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Originally posted by Bad wolfIf the book mentions evolution, it must at least explain the principle which it's based on, or else when the kids read the books, they would have to ask their parents what evolution was. Plus, since it's a college, the parents have no say in where the child goes to college (in American you can only go to one when you're 17 or older).
[b]All children learn about other religions when they go to a public school, because it's part of history (which shows the good and the bad sides to every religion).
- I can't comment on how it is set up there, but here I think it is wofully inadequate, only 1 hour each weak was dedicated to it, and the material was poor and limited/narrow.
Did t alking about God in all of the different religions is very, well, biased. 😵
They mentioned atheism agnosticism, but didn't go into much detail over it, since there wasn't much to go over. 😛
I'm pretty sure there are radical camps that go in the completely opposite direction. I think that religion doesn't mean much to younger children, and in moderation, doesn't harm them (if anything they enjoy Easter and Christmas). It's when you don't let a kid be a kid anymore and teach them to hate is where you get crazy people. It's not fair of any religion to rob them of their childhood.
Why do my posts always appear bold now? I'm not putting them in bold. 😕
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Originally posted by Remora91If the book mentions evolution, it must at least explain the principle which it's based on, or else when the kids read the books, they would have to ask their parents what evolution was. Plus, since it's a college, the parents have no say in where the child goes to college (in American you can only go to one when you're 17 or older).
If the book mentions evolution, it must at least explain the principle which it's based on, or else when the kids read the books, they would have to ask their parents what evolution was. Plus, since it's a college, the parents have no say in where the child goes to college (in American you can only go to one when you're 17 or older).
They mentioned athei ...[text shortened]... ildhood.
Why do my posts always appear bold now? I'm not putting them in bold. 😕
- Of course they will, but I think the link I posted is suggesting that the evidence is misrepresented, perhaps even the principles themselves.
I'm pretty sure there are radical camps that go in the completely opposite direction. I think that religion doesn't mean much to younger children, and in moderation, doesn't harm them (if anything they enjoy Easter and Christmas). It's when you don't let a kid be a kid anymore and teach them to hate is where you get crazy people. It's not fair of any religion to rob them of their childhood.
- That is true...
I hope I have raised a number of important in this thread, thanks for helping with them.
I hope you know I've been playing devil's advocate.
I think I have narrowed my viewpoint further to two problems:
1. Poor education, and science misrepresentation in home schooling.
2. Extremist religious teachings - as in teaching your children to hate 'such and such' and 'this and that', instead of tolerance.
Is their anything we can do about these things?
Why do my posts always appear bold now? I'm not putting them in bold. 😕
- See Noodles' post.
Originally posted by Bad wolf"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I think that parents (well everyone actually) should be banned from indoctrinating children with religious beliefs.
Bringing children up with certain beliefs is brainwashing, they should be allowed to make their own informed choices as an adult, without the skewed nonsense parents (and others) usually bring into the equation.
[b]I'd ban
1. All re ...[text shortened]... is an argument about banning religion, but not really talking about religion itself)[/b]
Enough said.
Note -- The first ammendmant doesn't specify an age limit, either. 😉
Originally posted by Bad wolfWell I think that all parents should be honest in explaining evolution, even if they say it's wrong. The other day I was watching the Discovery Times Channel and there was this really conservartive Muslim boy (probably not older than 9) who went to a more liberal city. He broke down in tears because he saw little girls lift up their burkas to their knees to wade through a fountain and play in it. He was scared and angry at the fact that these "prostitutes" had reserved him a place in Hell for seeing it. I don't know what the hell was wrong with his parents.
[b]If the book mentions evolution, it must at least explain the principle which it's based on, or else when the kids read the books, they would have to ask their parents what evolution was. Plus, since it's a college, the parents have no say in where the child goes to college (in American you can only go to one when you're 17 or older).
- Of course the ...[text shortened]... ays appear bold now? I'm not putting them in bold. 😕[/b]
- See Noodles' post.[/b]
Originally posted by Remora91I knew a Catholic mother whose daughters had never been swimming because their father didn't want them in bathing suits ever. Ever. In their whole lives. They couldn't even take swimming in high school. I met them when they were teens. On a later day the mother brought them to this private pool and finally allowed them to go in the water in their jeans and tee shirts. People are ... amazing...
Well I think that all parents should be honest in explaining evolution, even if they say it's wrong. The other day I was watching the Discovery Times Channel and there was this really conservartive Muslim boy (probably not older than 9) who went to a more liberal city. He broke down in tears because he saw little girls lift up their burkas to their knees to ...[text shortened]... ed him a place in Hell for seeing it. I don't know what the hell was wrong with his parents.
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Originally posted by Remora91That is pretty fudged up. 😕
Well I think that all parents should be honest in explaining evolution, even if they say it's wrong. The other day I was watching the Discovery Times Channel and there was this really conservartive Muslim boy (probably not older than 9) who went to a more liberal city. He broke down in tears because he saw little girls lift up their burkas to their knees to ...[text shortened]... ed him a place in Hell for seeing it. I don't know what the hell was wrong with his parents.