Originally posted by Bad wolfNo. I think children should be taught all major relgions, some minor ones and atheism at school. From the age of 7 onwards.
I think that parents (well everyone actually) should be banned from indoctrinating children with religious beliefs.
Bringing children up with certain beliefs is brainwashing, they should be allowed to make their own informed choices as an adult, without the skewed nonsense parents (and others) usually bring into the equation.
[b]I'd ban
1. All re ...[text shortened]... is an argument about banning religion, but not really talking about religion itself)[/b]
And basic philosophy, chess and politics.
They have to be taught to think for themselves.
This gives them the best chance of choosing that which best suits them, rather than doing what their parents do.
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Originally posted by prosoccerWeddings aren't just "an official recognition of the love between two people," they are religious ceremonies that have been around for ages. Maybe the modern version of weddings is deviod of much religion (for some people) but the truth is that a wedding has its origins in religion, so how can you keep around something that is so obviously a byproduct of religious tradition? Regardless of whether you want it or not, religion is going to permeate culture simply because it has played such a big part in the past history of the world.
Weddings aren't just "an official recognition of the love between two people," they are religious ceremonies that have been around for ages. Maybe the modern version of weddings is deviod of much religion (for some people) but the truth is that a wedding has its origins in religion, so how can you keep around something that is so obviously a byproduct of r ...[text shortened]... y liberal or conservative minded newspapers and base their opinions off those ideals?
- What is your point? So the kid gets exposed to a little religion, so what?
I don't think that a wedding 'brainwashes' kids very much at all.
What do you mean "why should I [draw the line]?" You are going to destroy a person's heritage for the sake of control of religion? You say "that some people attach religious meaning to Christmas" as if they are attaching something to what somebody else has started and they are just adding their own take on it to the holiday. It is clear that WE are the ones that stole the holiday and made it our own (that's not to say that Christmas itself wasn't stolen by Christians, but it was stolen from another religion).
- And? I don't care where it's origins lie, it is set up so people buy presents, now.
What is so wrong with that?
So if you have all this wasted money you should use it to strengthen the school system instead of demolishing it and starting anew.
- I will be strengthening the system, new schools would be phased in, not everything demolished in one go.
When you take away the rights of parents to teach their children religion you also take away their rights to teach the children values because religious values are often linked with family values.
- Perhaps you misunderstand me, I have said that indoctrinating a religion into the minds of children should not be allowed; but this doesn't close the door on the parent to talk about right and wrong, murder/stealing is wrong etc. But the parents, I say, shouldn't say it is because of 'this', e.g. bible, or because so-and-so said...
it should be open to all beliefs and the reasons for them, not just the narrow view point it is now.
What's next? Not letting a parent teach a child to read because the child might ready liberal or conservative minded newspapers and base their opinions off those ideals?
- Well, why would the parents be teaching the child to read in the first place? The schools would be doing it...
but if they did, no I wouldn't be against it.
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Originally posted by StarValleyWyYou are saying that you want the children brainwashed in YOUR fashion. You are saying it is the job of adults to so brainwash them.
You are saying that you want the children brainwashed in YOUR fashion. You are saying it is the job of adults to so brainwash them.
I was brainwashed as a child into mormonism. It isn't a fatal thing. When I was old enough to think on my own, I did. And had I had a nazi parent like you... who didn't allow all of life to come at me, I would prob ...[text shortened]... ht your way out of trouble, you are just a Democrat with all the entitlements in the universe.[/b]
- Yep.
I was brainwashed as a child into mormonism. It isn't a fatal thing. When I was old enough to think on my own, I did.
And had I had a nazi parent like you...
- That isn't very nice :'(
who didn't allow all of life to come at me, I would probably be a mindless pseudo-lib like you.
Until you have thought your way out of trouble, you are just a Democrat with all the entitlements in the universe.
Originally posted by shavixmirNice one Shav, I should be getting concerned here agreeing with you so much lately.
No. I think children should be taught all major relgions, some minor ones and atheism at school. From the age of 7 onwards.
And basic philosophy, chess and politics.
They have to be taught to think for themselves.
This gives them the best chance of choosing that which best suits them, rather than doing what their parents do.
Any parents interested in their children learning to learn should check for the nearest Montessori school.
"Montessori is not a system for training children in academic studies; nor is it a label to be put on educational materials. It is a revolutionary method of observing and supporting the natural development of children."
http://www.montessori.edu/
Originally posted by Bad wolfAs parents you are in charge of your minor until 18 so you bring them up the way you feel would benefit them....if going to church,educating them in a denomination is the way you feel is right then i say do it.... when they are 18 they can then choose a denomination or to not believe...
I think that parents (well everyone actually) should be banned from indoctrinating children with religious beliefs.
Bringing children up with certain beliefs is brainwashing, they should be allowed to make their own informed choices as an adult, without the skewed nonsense parents (and others) usually bring into the equation.
[b]I'd ban
1. All re ...[text shortened]... is an argument about banning religion, but not really talking about religion itself)[/b]
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4 edits
Originally posted by Remora91Honey, instead of worrying about what's wrong with the United States, please clean up your own backyard. You use the United States as an example in every one of your posts where you want to ban something, where England has the exact same "problems." Plus, you know nothing about life in the United States, so how on Earth can you possibly make huge assumptions about us?
Honey, instead of worrying about what's wrong with the United States, please clean up your own backyard. You use the United States as an example in every one of your posts where you want to ban something, where England has the exact same "problems." Plus, you know nothing about life in the United States, so how on Earth can you possibly make huge assumption ith a few years ago. So that proves it hasn't brainwashed me.
- I use the US in my examples because they are much more religious than most other places, the UK and to a further extent Europe, is a lot more secular.
Sorry if it is offending you. 🙁😳
And it seems to me like you've been raised with no religious background, and I doubt you've done any of the things you've banned, which is just intolerance for something different. How on earth do you know these things are brainwashing if they didn't brainwash you?
- How can you know if you have been brainwashed if you have already been brainwashed? You would be unaware of it... 😕😉
Religious schools are there for parents to have the choice of letting their child receive extra spiritual education. If they would like their child to learn more about Christianity than what's taught in public schools, that should be perfectly reasonable, especially if they are a member of this faith. What's wrong with learning what you are or what your parents believe in?
- Indoctrination is defined as 'to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.', now sending someone to a religious school is biased wouldn't you say? I don't like this idea.
My parents raised me religiously from a very early age. I went to Church almost every Sunday and Wednesday, and I can tell you that Wednesday night choir practice is not brainwashing - if anything it's developing skills you can use later in life (I owe my voice to a religious singing competition). Plus, Sunday services do not beat Jesus into a little kids brain. If anything, it explained my faith to me more so I knew what I could be a part of when I was older, and what it meant to be a Christian.
- Yep, it explains your faith that you have been brought up with, with a biased view, not even considering other religions. lol. :
I'm happy you now have a lovely singing voice now though. 🙂🙂
I also went to Christian Camp pretty much every summer since I was 7. This is not brainwashing either. Basically at all the camps you either played sports all day or did charity work all day. You'd usually have a few hours to go to a "spiritual warfare" class, during which you'd learn about what the Bible teaches about angels, Hell, Heaven, etc. Nothing brainwashing, just informative.
- Biased though? Did they talk about other religions? Were they mentioning all of the bad points about Christianity as well as the good points?
Then at night you'd have a worship service, where you'd basically sing and listen to a counselor's testimony of how they came to walk with God. And the way my counselor explained what his faith meant really hit home with me, which is how I became a Christian.
- Again this is biased, telling the children of such a young age (wow, 7 years old...), how brilliant God is, what he has done for me, how it has enhanced my life...
Did they ever talk about people who haven't found God and how they themselves are happy without him? Or how about those who are part of other (very different, e.g. many Gods) faiths and how they have very similar experiences.
Being taught a singular, narrow view point, consistently from the age of 7 years of age, what else is the child supposed to believe, when it is taught almost as if it were fact?
Sounds like brainwashing to me...
Just look up brainwashing in a dictionary:
http://tinyurl.com/2fljlu
2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion
repetition indeed
Home-schooling is often used when public schools fail to meet a parent's educational standards. If your child is in a class with 35 other people, they're probably not going to get the individual attention they need.
- True, I recognise this and so I wouldn't change the system unless I could accommodate for this.
So will you ban those parents from keeping their kids home? Plus, if parents don't want their kids to be taught something that goes against their morals, that's their choice.
- i disagree, it is the entire premise of my thread, parents not being allowed to indoctrinate their children with belief systems.
You cannot believe that children who are home-schooled will never hear about evolution in their life. Their parents probably explain it to them, but then explain why they believe it's wrong.
When the kid is older the parents will probably let them learn about it if they're curious, or they will find out from T.V., the internet, friend, college, etc.
- Can you please read this and get back to me on it.
http://tinyurl.com/yet6bj
When it comes to religious clothing, it's just saying what part of a faith you are. I sometimes wear a cross to say that I'm a Christian. It doesn't brainwash or brand me though.
- Can you say that a 7 year old can say the same thing though?
And you think that it's not brainwashing if you say that if you do this when you're a kid, your parents will be taken away? Or are you just trying to scare kids away from religion so they won't participate in it when they're older? If you're really concerned about the child's wellbeing, think how much trauma seeing your parents put in jail could cause. Plus, more children being introduced into the foster system would mean they could get lost in the system more easily, and would be more likely to be subject to abuse.
- Indeed, this would be a significant hurdle to overcome; the well being of the child is my number one concern, I can't currently think of any good way for it to be justifiably enforced. Throwing the parents in jail wouldn't exactly be good for the children, I recognise that...
🙁
If you really want to stop children from developing unhealthy habits, you should make children take tolerance classes, so they're not soley taught hate in some extreme cases. But again, it's not fair to punish every religious community for the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church (which consists of about 80 members).
- My initial thought on this is that is that it would only be tackling the effects, not the root causes of the problem.
Edit: I forgot to mention that after all this religious background, I still lost my faith a few years ago. So that proves it hasn't brainwashed me.
- We could even argue here, you have been brainwashed for most of your life to follow a certain religion most of your life, the Christian camps since the age of 7, etc, lots of people, I'm glad you have come to your own decision on religion, but do you think that most people are capable of this, or better yet recognise consciously what they believe and why.
I would surmise that most people don't recognise it, and just simply accept it and carry on as usual without even confronting it.
But I may be wrong.
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1 edit
Originally posted by NordlysThanks for your response, I don't really know what to think about it all really.
Not much. I don't see anything wrong with parents talking about their own beliefs with their children, taking them to church etc., as long as the children also learn about other world views and are free to make their own choices. It would be dishonest of the parents to deny their beliefs and exclude their children from an important part of their life. I don' bout Muffy in school, though. Faith Whalism should also be included in the curriculum.
I like your idea to teach about Muffy in school, though. Faith Whalism should also be included in the curriculum.
- That can be arranged. 🙂
What do you think about the idea of banning of home schooling though?
Assuming of course schools were appropriately improved.
http://tinyurl.com/yet6bj
Read it and tell me what you think.
edit: and what about the christian 'brainwash' camps? 😉
Originally posted by Jay Joos"As parents you are in charge of your minor until 18 so you bring them up the way you feel would benefit them"
As parents you are in charge of your minor until 18 so you bring them up the way you feel would benefit them....if going to church,educating them in a denomination is the way you feel is right then i say do it.... when they are 18 they can then choose a denomination or to not believe...
So if you feel they should be introduced to sexual intercourse early on, then that is ok , eh, MAn Joos?
Originally posted by shavixmirSince many kids aged 7 cannot even read and write under Socialist education I cannot see how they are going to grasp the elements of 'all major religions, atheism, chess, and politics'.
No. I think children should be taught all major relgions, some minor ones and atheism at school. From the age of 7 onwards.
And basic philosophy, chess and politics.
They have to be taught to think for themselves.
This gives them the best chance of choosing that which best suits them, rather than doing what their parents do.
How about including quantum theory and relativity as well?
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Originally posted by Thales2I'm sorry but if a kid can't read by age 7 his/her parents should be publicly caned.
Since many kids aged 7 cannot even read and write under Socialist education I cannot see how they are going to grasp the elements of 'all major religions, atheism, chess, and politics'.
How about including quantum theory and relativity as well?
Originally posted by howardgeeHow early are you talking about?
"As parents you are in charge of your minor until 18 so you bring them up the way you feel would benefit them"
So if you feel they should be introduced to sexual intercourse early on, then that is ok , eh, MAn Joos?
Seriously Howie... we were talking about religion....not Sexual Intercourse.... get your mind out of the gutter....remember we are talking about religion....got it....R.E.L.I.G.I.O.N. !!!
Originally posted by Jay JoosCorruption is corruption. Whether it is sexually abusing your kids or brain washing them with religious lies--neither are acceptable in any modern society.
How early are you talking about?
Seriously Howie... we were talking about religion....not Sexual Intercourse.... get your mind out of the gutter....remember we are talking about religion....got it....R.E.L.I.G.I.O.N. !!!
Originally posted by Bad wolfAbsolutely spot on.
I think that parents (well everyone actually) should be banned from indoctrinating children with religious beliefs.
Bringing children up with certain beliefs is brainwashing, they should be allowed to make their own informed choices as an adult, without the skewed nonsense parents (and others) usually bring into the equation.
[b]I'd ban
1. All re ...[text shortened]... is an argument about banning religion, but not really talking about religion itself)[/b]
Well said.