Requiem for a Dream

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It's not dangerous to drive on pot, maybe for a handful of idiots, but then again they should know netter. I do.

As to your conclusion I pretty much agree, though somewhat limited.

As to your summary of drugs and their function , I think you are way off and have bought into propaganda:

1. The worst thing about alcohol is the way it makes a m ...[text shortened]... o). You just gotta give your mind something else to focus on. Preferably a lot of things.

No I haven't bought into propaganda. The dangers of drugs are overstated, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Chronic overuse of alcohol causes liver disease, which can be warded off by not drinking a few days in the week, I didn't think it was necessary to point out the caveats since the medical advice is quite well known for alcohol. It's based on the way people who get liver cirrhosis tend to have drunk at least eight or more units of alcohol a day for a long period. So for the daily allowance they quote half that figure.

The damage from cigarettes is risk based, the fact that some smoke all their lives and get away with it doesn't mean it's not harmful. Reducing below a packet a day isn't enough, there have been studies that failed to show a statistically significant difference between rates of carcinoma amongst occasional smokers and non-smokers, but they weren't smoking every day. Tobacco's addictive and use tends to escalate.

What do you mean cannabis can be helpful in negating alcohol and cigarettes? Mixing alcohol and cannabis can be pretty unpleasant for the user. A major risk for cannabis users is that they end up addicted to tobacco.

We seem to agree about LSD, but you are underestimating the ability of people on acid to hurt themselves, imagine them trying to cross a road. The hazards are easily managed, but require people to be aware of them before doing it.

It is not safe to drive when under the influence of any substance (except tobacco). Cannabis alters perception of distances as well as messing up reaction times, people on it shouldn't drive.

Originally posted by e4chris
I remember a story about a guy who took lsd and went on a trampoline, and 5 years later was still in the asylum going weee weeee ......

Urban myth.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Urban myth.

You are usually quite insightful, but i think you have been turning out the urban myths in this thread. lsd is trouble. I would worry if a friend was taking it, i would not give a monkeys about weed, unless there tv started talking to them...

Originally posted by DeepThought
No I haven't bought into propaganda. The dangers of drugs are overstated, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. Chronic overuse of alcohol causes liver disease, which can be warded off by not drinking a few days in the week, I didn't think it was necessary to point out the caveats since the medical advice is quite well known for alcohol. ...[text shortened]... tion of distances as well as messing up reaction times, people on it shouldn't drive.

You may not have bought into propaganda, please forgive that slur.

It may just be my Hungarian genes, but I personally know plenty of daily drinkers who live long healthy lives.

The ciggie comment was a practical one. Some just cant quit outright.

What's worse : 20 cigs a day and 6 drinks or 3 skinny joints? For some marijuana can relive their stress by resorting to less harmful drugs.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You may not have bought into propaganda, please forgive that slur.

It may just be my Hungarian genes, but I personally know plenty of daily drinkers who live long healthy lives.

The ciggie comment was a practical one. Some just cant quit outright.

What's worse : 20 cigs a day and 6 drinks or 3 skinny joints? For some marijuana can relive their stress by resorting to less harmful drugs.

Interestingly the rise of cirrhosis of the liver in my country (UK) is entirely correlated with the rise of drinking wine at home. In the '50s almost no one got cirrhosis, these days it's fashionable. In the old days people would drink in the pub and not that much because it's expensive. Now you can get a bottle of wine for £2.50 which is 20 minutes work on the minimum wage. I don't want to spoil people's fun, but that's too cheap.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Interestingly the rise of cirrhosis of the liver in my country (UK) is entirely correlated with the rise of drinking wine at home. In the '50s almost no one got cirrhosis, these days it's fashionable. In the old days people would drink in the pub and not that much because it's expensive. Now you can get a bottle of wine for £2.50 which is 20 minutes work on the minimum wage. I don't want to spoil people's fun, but that's too cheap.

I don't like arguments that say we should 'regulate plebs' by making bad things like booze too expensive, why should you or rich people be immune, are they any less gluttonous? I hate that about weed laws too, why is it A OK for boris johnson or david cameron to have smoked it, but it means a conviction for a poor person, that really vexs me.

Originally posted by e4chris
I don't like arguments that say we should 'regulate plebs' by making bad things like booze too expensive, why should you or rich people be immune, are they any less gluttonous? I hate that about weed laws too, why is it A OK for boris johnson or david cameron to have smoked it, but it means a conviction for a poor person, that really vexs me.

I agree. It's about personal freedoms.

It boils down to something like this : suicide is illegal. WTF?
So is euthanasia.
Since when did the government have the right to regulate what we do to ourselves?
Personally I think that the powers that be, the corrupt police and politicians,etc. like the way the laws are just fine.
Imagine if people were allowed to grow whatever in their back yards and enjoy the fruits of their labours? Why it would be an outrage!!
Fancy getting stoned of your own homegrown weed? Why, the cops have to come and grab that quality stuff off you. They are jealous and would rather them smoking it than you.
Miserable sods.
We are sending the wrong message to our kids with the type of message we put out about drugs and alcohol.
Tell kids the truth. No one dies from smoking pot and legal drugs are the biggest killers, not heroin or meth.
Lets use drugs to get out of addictive lifestyles rather than doing what society deems as good, (drugs like tv, sex,work,a quiet drink,etc. ), while totally misleading us with what is supposed to be bad, like smoking weed.

I do have to admit I'm an exception to the rule, that using illegal drugs can often lead to bad places - that is a fact. But it's the self destructive nature of people coming to the fore which should really be addressed , not what sort of candy they are taking to get their minds off it.

Originally posted by e4chris
I don't like arguments that say we should 'regulate plebs' by making bad things like booze too expensive, why should you or rich people be immune, are they any less gluttonous? I hate that about weed laws too, why is it A OK for boris johnson or david cameron to have smoked it, but it means a conviction for a poor person, that really vexs me.

If the stuff is too cheap then people won't respect the potency of the contents of the bottle. Even on benefits £5 for a bottle of wine is still affordable it's not simply a question of pricing people out; but if the stuff costs £2.50 it's just too cheap to take seriously. A bottle of wine at home shouldn't cost less than a pint of beer in a pub - or for that matter a packet of cigarettes. With beer the volume of fluid acts as a moderator. and pub landlords don't want people who can't leave the pub under their own steam. With wine neither of those moderators are present. Spirits are expensive anyway (even without the tax), so there's a tendency to respect the contents of the bottle.

I agree with the last bit.

Originally posted by DeepThought
If the stuff is too cheap then people won't respect the potency of the contents of the bottle. Even on benefits £5 for a bottle of wine is still affordable it's not simply a question of pricing people out; but if the stuff costs £2.50 it's just too cheap to take seriously. A bottle of wine at home shouldn't cost less than a pint of beer in a pub - or f o there's a tendency to respect the contents of the bottle.

I agree with the last bit.

I was thinking how do you have a resposible drinks promo.. you could have the first 3 drinks for a £1 then normal price after that, encourages you to get drunk but stop before you are legless.

I lost a good friend to drugs not long ago, and it was no overdose that killed him, it was the black market, the poor lad was in and out of prison his hole life for drugs offences, he was clever and kind, not the type you had to be afraid of in any way. and he hung himself at 25 in prison. He had a life like a joy division song. he liked this song - no church in the wild, am not a rap fan but i kinda like it YouTube whats a mob to a king it asks? the mob, those london riots, you could see that coming for a while.

Originally posted by e4chris
I was thinking how do you have a resposible drinks promo.. you could have the first 3 drinks for a £1 then normal price after that, encourages you to get drunk but stop before you are legless.

I lost a good friend to drugs not long ago, and it was no overdose that killed him, it was the black market, the poor lad was in and out of prison his hole life fo ...[text shortened]... ats a mob to a king it asks? the mob, those london riots, you could see that coming for a while.

Promotions should be on quality, some vineyards produce a standard wine and a more expensive one. Reducing the price of the reserva to the price of the standard one isn't going to induce anyone to drink more than they would anyway.

I'm sorry about your friend. The people most at risk of overdose are people who've had a habit and kicked it and start again without taking their reduced tolerance into account. People occasionally die of acute alcohol toxicity, but it tends to be the chronic problems that shorten life with all drugs, self-harm comes under that category.

Originally posted by e4chris
You are usually quite insightful, but i think you have been turning out the urban myths in this thread. lsd is trouble. I would worry if a friend was taking it, i would not give a monkeys about weed, unless there tv started talking to them...

The people I know who have taken LSD are doing just fine. It's chronic effects on healthy people are nonexistent, and it's one of the safest drugs out there.

I am a recovering addict, recovering from booze,and pills, I do have 30 years of recovery behind me and one more day of freedom ahead ( as long as I stay clean)I have a simple question, "HAVE LAWS EVER STOPPED A PERSON FROM BECOMING AN ADDICT ?" I am pretty sure of the answer. A resounding NO. Nor can you scare anyone enough to prevent their trying things. Education, open honest truthful education will work.

Originally posted by DeepThought
If the stuff is too cheap then people won't respect the potency of the contents of the bottle. Even on benefits £5 for a bottle of wine is still affordable it's not simply a question of pricing people out; but if the stuff costs £2.50 it's just too cheap to take seriously. A bottle of wine at home shouldn't cost less than a pint of beer in a pub - or f ...[text shortened]... o there's a tendency to respect the contents of the bottle.

I agree with the last bit.

Especially if it becomes cheap in the black market, where there is a sudden oversupply. What do you (echris4) think happens when the big raids come 6months-12months later, (when the cops have prepared there paperwork,lol), and the prices return to normal. You suddenly have a huge bunch of people with heroin habits and a sudden withdrawal of the prurity and price of their medicine. Crime goes up. People do desperate things and end up in Thailand jails for life,etc.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The people I know who have taken LSD are doing just fine. It's chronic effects on healthy people are nonexistent, and it's one of the safest drugs out there.

LSD should come with a warning and some advice before trying it the first time. I read forty pages on DMT before I tried that by myself and I'm really glad that I did.

Originally posted by wizard100947
I am a recovering addict, recovering from booze,and pills, I do have 30 years of recovery behind me and one more day of freedom ahead ( as long as I stay clean)I have a simple question, "HAVE LAWS EVER STOPPED A PERSON FROM BECOMING AN ADDICT ?" I am pretty sure of the answer. A resounding NO. Nor can you scare anyone enough to prevent their trying things. Education, open honest truthful education will work.

No, the laws aren't there to stop you, neither do they want to. It seems drug users make up a significant portion of the prison population , and as we all know, prisons are very good business 😕


Good luck with you're sobriety, don't get too hard on yourself if you do have a "ciggie" , it usually makes things worse causing negative moods which makes one more susceptible to breaking down and using more.