Retired Generals Criticizing Rumsfeld: Good?

Originally posted by flyUnity
So far in every war, there has been a few generals that critisize how the war was done, This is nothing new, well maybe it is for you.

pointing out that there has always been criticism is not a critique on the validity of the current criticism in question.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Rumsfeld, like your neo-con hero Barnet, thought that the Iraqi people couldn't wait to be invaded so they could start having their individual liberties protected. Therefore, he figured we didn't need a lot of troops; they'd only be tripping over the flowers the hordes of grateful Iraqis would be throwing in front of US soldiers anyway. Just enough to do ...[text shortened]... et government and VOILA! the crude would start flowing and the boys could move on to Syria.

they were way too optimistic .... they didn't count on the groundswell of support for the insurgency amongst the U.S. intelligentsia ... let alone the E.U. ....

Originally posted by sasquatch672
You've all read the stories. (If you haven't, pound sand.) So there's an argument that the criticism of the military's civilian leadership by general officers, active or retired, threatens a pillar of our republic - "civilian" control of the military. Rumsfeld's been criticized for being officious, dismissive - lots of personal attacks, but he's also ...[text shortened]... 't - it would be tantamount to admitting his entire presidency was a failure.

not good ... it's kind of late to whine about things now .... plus, why do you think things are that bad? what would you reasonably expect at this point, if you screened out naysayers who would be complaining no matter what the casualty levels were? (didn't they say way back then that we could expect tens of thousands of lost troops just in the initial invasion?)

and is Rumsfeld responsible for the strategic and tactical errors, or are the generals? i'd expect them to be more responsible. he's at the top, but they are supposed to have the expertise.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
You've all read the stories. (If you haven't, pound sand.) So there's an argument that the criticism of the military's civilian leadership by general officers, active or retired, threatens a pillar of our republic - "civilian" control of the military. Rumsfeld's been criticized for being officious, dismissive - lots of personal attacks, but he's also ...[text shortened]... 't - it would be tantamount to admitting his entire presidency was a failure.

I think you are getting Cheney confused with Rumsfeld. cheney had the defferments. Rumsfield was a Marine pilot.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
You've all read the stories. (If you haven't, pound sand.) So there's an argument that the criticism of the military's civilian leadership by general officers, active or retired, threatens a pillar of our republic - "civilian" control of the military. Rumsfeld's been criticized for being officious, dismissive - lots of personal attacks, but he's also ...[text shortened]... 't - it would be tantamount to admitting his entire presidency was a failure.

Those Generals, most of which had a axe to grind with Rumsfeld. Most were Clinton cronies that were promoted when he was in office. It doesn't amaze me that the cowards are denouncing Rumsfeldt after they have retired. Westley Clark was a buffoon as the USAEUR Commander.

Originally posted by slimjim
Those Generals, most of which had a axe to grind with Rumsfeld. Most were Clinton cronies that were promoted when he was in office. It doesn't amaze me that the cowards are denouncing Rumsfeldt after they have retired. Westley Clark was a buffoon as the USAEUR Commander.

"Cowardly" generals now, men who served in the military most of their lives. "Super patriot", my a**; you're just another right-wing jerk who has no problem attacking members of the US military IF they disagree with the views of the Gods in government that you worship. The "buffoon" Wes Clark managed to win a war without losing the life of a single US servicemen (though that war was unnecessary and foolish also).

Originally posted by slimjim
I think you are getting Cheney confused with Rumsfeld. cheney had the defferments. Rumsfield was a Marine pilot.

Actually Rumsfeld was a Navy pilot a half a century ago. He's been nothing but a political hack since.

Originally posted by no1marauder
"Cowardly" generals now, men who served in the military most of their lives. "Super patriot", my a**; you're just another right-wing jerk who has no problem attacking members of the US military IF they disagree with the views of the Gods in government that you worship. The "buffoon" Wes Clark managed to win a war without losing the life of a single US servicemen (though that war was unnecessary and foolish also).

I use the term cowardly because they didn't complain about Rumsfelt when they were on active duty. A couple were passed over for promotion and have an axe to grind with him. They should keep their mouths shut. They as you put it spent most of their lives in the military like myself who also spent half his life in the military unlike some lawyer who cleaned the head for three years in the Navy. If you are referring to Clark not losing any lives in Bosnia you had better check again. I know he is a Clinton boy and you love him so much but, as a Commander he was more European (his wife is from Belguim) in his thinking. He is living in a dream world if he thinks he can become president. Only two Generals (Powell and Swartzkofe) only come to mind. Maybe General Franks also would have some kind of chance running for office.

Originally posted by slimjim
I use the term cowardly because they didn't complain about Rumsfelt when they were on active duty. A couple were passed over for promotion and have an axe to grind with him. They should keep their mouths shut. They as you put it spent most of their lives in the military like myself who also spent half his life in the military unlike some lawyer who cleaned t ...[text shortened]... only come to mind. Maybe General Franks also would have some kind of chance running for office.

It's forbidden for Generals on active duty to PUBLICLY criticize their superiors in war time; even somebody as dense as you should know that. And if they had, you'd be calling them "traitors" who were screwing up the morale of the troops with their "defeatist" attitudes. Like I said you're just a right wing jerk who falls for any line from Fox News and the Bush administration hook, line and sinker.

Clark was the commander of the forces in the KOSOVO war. No US troops were killed in that war. Look it up.

EDIT: I can't believe you're sooooooooooooo petty that you bring up that Clark's married a woman from Belgium! What a total loser you are! He was NATO Commander and was STATIONED in Brussels for years; do you also attack US servicemen stationed in the Phillipines for marrying Flipino women for example? Unbelievable.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
You've all read the stories. (If you haven't, pound sand.) So there's an argument that the criticism of the military's civilian leadership by general officers, active or retired, threatens a pillar of our republic - "civilian" control of the military. Rumsfeld's been criticized for being officious, dismissive - lots of personal attacks, but he's also ...[text shortened]... 't - it would be tantamount to admitting his entire presidency was a failure.

Which are those "strategic and tactical errors" Rumsfeld made according to his critics ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Which are those "strategic and tactical errors" Rumsfeld made according to his critics ?

From what I've read, their main complaints are that Rumsfeld rejected advice to send more ground troops for the occupation force and that the Iraqi army shouldn't have been disbanded. Whether those were really errors is questionable.

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's forbidden for Generals on active duty to PUBLICLY criticize their superiors in war time; even somebody as dense as you should know that. And if they had, you'd be calling them "traitors" who were screwing up the morale of the troops with their "defeatist" attitudes. Like I said you're just a right wing jerk who falls for any line from Fox News and t ...[text shortened]... men stationed in the Phillipines for marrying Flipino women for example? Unbelievable.

Kosova wasn't a ground war. It was a bombing war using planes from the Navy and Air Force.. There wasn't boots on the ground unless it was SF troops. To compare Kosovo to Iraq shows exactly what a dumbass you are. Kosovo is or was a state of Serbia who was protecting its borders from Albanians illegally coming over the border and pushing Serbs out of their homeland. It was also used by Clinton who got caught leaving peter tracks on Monica's dress. Which I could care less by the way. Also don't tell me that wife doesn't have any input on a husbands way of thinking whether she is Phillipina, Korean, European. etc.etc.

Originally posted by no1marauder
From what I've read, their main complaints are that Rumsfeld rejected advice to send more ground troops for the occupation force and that the Iraqi army shouldn't have been disbanded. Whether those were really errors is questionable.

You people seem to forget that we had another division poised to strike from Turkey when the Turks pulled the rug out from under us on that plan. If the Turks had let us cross from their border we would have had another division hitting from the North into Tikrit on into Bagdad. Like true proffesionals they had contingency plans for that and still went in.

Originally posted by slimjim
Kosova wasn't a ground war. It was a bombing war using planes from the Navy and Air Force.. There wasn't boots on the ground unless it was SF troops. To compare Kosovo to Iraq shows exactly what a dumbass you are. Kosovo is or was a state of Serbia who was protecting its borders from Albanians illegally coming over the border and pushing Serbs out of their h ...[text shortened]... y input on a husbands way of thinking whether she is Phillipina, Korean, European. etc.etc.

I shouldn't have taken a retard's word for anything without checking; Clark's wife is a Irish-American Catholic from Brooklyn who he's been married to for 40 years. You must have gotten your "information" from Fox News and/or right wing blogs.

Kosovo was a war and it was won without the loss of a single US life. I'd say Clark did a pretty good job. He is also a combat veteran who was wounded in action and received a Silver Star for bravery. Yeah, he's not "American" at all.