15 Dec 21
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/15/chinas-xi-and-russias-putin-talk-geopolitics-in-video-call.html
China is siding with Russia regarding Ukraine, possibly a middle-finger to the West. Putin called Xi his "dear friend".
What does this super-power alliance mean for the world? Both also have veto power in the UN.
- Joined
- 05 Nov 06
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- 147478
15 Dec 21
@vivify saidthe concern is china and russia alliance with democrats
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/15/chinas-xi-and-russias-putin-talk-geopolitics-in-video-call.html
China is siding with Russia regarding Ukraine, possibly a middle-finger to the West. Putin called Xi his "dear friend".
What does this super-power alliance mean for the world? Both also have veto power in the UN.
15 Dec 21
@mott-the-hoople saidDidn't know Trump was a Democrat.
the concern is china and russia alliance with democrats
15 Dec 21
@mott-the-hoople saidYet when Hillary was in the running Trump and his sock puppets claimed Hillary would start WW3....You guys need to get your story straight.
the concern is china and russia alliance with democrats
15 Dec 21
@vivify saidIt's nothing new and this alliance has lots of cracks. China exploits Russia by reverse engineering Russian weapons and in the past has even attacked Russia simply for purposes of prestige. China wants the world to think it is better than Russia and will play rough to get this result.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/15/chinas-xi-and-russias-putin-talk-geopolitics-in-video-call.html
China is siding with Russia regarding Ukraine, possibly a middle-finger to the West. Putin called Xi his "dear friend".
What does this super-power alliance mean for the world? Both also have veto power in the UN.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
- Moves
- 251103
15 Dec 21
@vivify saidI haven't studied the situation but history
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/15/chinas-xi-and-russias-putin-talk-geopolitics-in-video-call.html
China is siding with Russia regarding Ukraine, possibly a middle-finger to the West. Putin called Xi his "dear friend".
What does this super-power alliance mean for the world? Both also have veto power in the UN.
has taught us that China will take the expedient path.
She is having troubles of her own
vis-a-vis Taiwan, Japan, and The Philippines.
Russia and China share a long common border
and, I expect, a large amount of commerce.
The first thing, presumably, a country would do
is to calm and placate a powerful and nervous neighbor.
These two powerful countries are anxious not to be
marginalized by the world community and, for the
moment, may find solace by playing cozy to each other.
@vivify saidRussia and China have gotten in and out of bed every few years essentially since WWII. They'll cozy up to each other when they can use each other and then they'll have some fight over Mongolia or something and they'll fall out.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/15/chinas-xi-and-russias-putin-talk-geopolitics-in-video-call.html
China is siding with Russia regarding Ukraine, possibly a middle-finger to the West. Putin called Xi his "dear friend".
What does this super-power alliance mean for the world? Both also have veto power in the UN.
It is critically important for the west to stand up for the Taiwans and Ukraines of the world, IMHO. Otherwise, I'm sure China and Russia will trade tacit agreements to approve of the other's conquest.
We can still stop both, but only if we really give a damn (which I'm not sure we do).
Saving Hong Kong, on the other hand, may be impossible. HK will have a bit of a brain drain as the West lets in the people who can afford to get out, but the rest will be completely under Chinese heel within a few years.
15 Dec 21
7 edits
@sh76 saidIt's much different now compared to the years following WWII; China is the world's second largest economy, rapidly marching toward becoming number one. An alliance with China (both militaristic and economic) would greatly benefit Russia, not to mention China's political influence over the world.
Russia and China have gotten in and out of bed every few years essentially since WWII. They'll cozy up to each other when they can use each other and then they'll have some fight over Mongolia or something and they'll fall out.
For China, Russia would be their most powerful ally.
More importantly, both have shifted toward capitalism, being communist in name only. Powerful business-minded nations are frightening.
- Joined
- 27 Sep 06
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15 Dec 21
2 edits
@vivify saidRUSSIA does not claim
It's much different now compared to the years following WWII; China is the world's second largest economy, rapidly marching toward becoming number one. An alliance with China (both militaristic and economic) would greatly benefit Russia, not to mention China's political influence over the world.
For China, Russia would be their most powerful ally.
More importantly, ...[text shortened]... toward capitalism, being communist in name only. Powerful business-minded nations are frightening.
to have a Communist system.
China, as you say, pretty much in name only.
I agree with Vivify and sh76's posts.
16 Dec 21
@jimm619 saidOn the basis of ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’ they are obvious allies at the moment but in the long term Russia might decide that a liberal Europe and a liberal democratic super power across the Atlantic is less of a threat than an expansionist totalitarian super power on its eastern border.
RUSSIA does not claim
to have a Communist system.
China, as you say, pretty much in name only.
I agree with Vivify and sh76's posts.
If it’s got any sense
@kevcvs57 saidIs China really an "expansionist threat"? When is the last time China invaded a country?
On the basis of ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’ they are obvious allies at the moment but in the long term Russia might decide that a liberal Europe and a liberal democratic super power across the Atlantic is less of a threat than an expansionist totalitarian super power on its eastern border.
If it’s got any sense
Have you forgotten Russia invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea?
16 Dec 21
@vivify saidChina has modelled its expansion on American economic colonisation. The Belt and Road initiative sees China expanding into Africa and any other resource rich nation. The difference with America is China invades the host with its own self contained resource extraction facility manned by the Chinese themselves. They pay rent but are not interested in any transfer of knowledge experience or expertise to the local population.
Is China really an "expansionist threat"? When is the last time China invaded a country?
Have you forgotten Russia invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea?
It will be interesting to see how subservient to Chinese demands the Russians will ever be in this relationship. China has benefited by technology transfer over the years using Soviet built armaments under license as a means to establish its own military might. Just how much Russia has held back in its relationship with China is anyone's guess, but given the issues China has with powerplants for its 5g fighters, it seems that Russia is not rolling over just yet. By holding some military advantage is probably the only way it can preserve its autonomy and not end up becoming a vassal state.
16 Dec 21
@vivify saidChina like any militarised trading power is as expansionist as it needs to and/or expansionist ad it is able to be. Many of its neighbours believe it’s definitely expansionist. What’s the chances that it would not expand westward if this Russia / China alliance manages to nullify the US in the Pacific. You seem to be assuming that China would act differently to all other dominant powers throughout human history, I’m assuming they would follow the same expansionist pattern as their predecessors.
Is China really an "expansionist threat"? When is the last time China invaded a country?
Have you forgotten Russia invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea?
16 Dec 21
@kevcvs57 saidI was responding specifically to what you said here:
China like any militarised trading power is as expansionist as it needs to and/or expansionist ad it is able to be. Many of its neighbours believe it’s definitely expansionist. What’s the chances that it would not expand westward if this Russia / China alliance manages to nullify the US in the Pacific. You seem to be assuming that China would act differently to all other dom ...[text shortened]... t human history, I’m assuming they would follow the same expansionist pattern as their predecessors.
"Russia might decide that a liberal Europe and a liberal democratic super power across the Atlantic is less of a threat than an expansionist totalitarian super power on its eastern border.
If it’s got any sense"
I found it interesting that even though Russia is the one that annexed another country's territory, you called China the "expansionist threat"....especially since Russia has an extensive history of invading and taking over other countries. This is the reason why NATO was formed.
16 Dec 21
@vivify saidI'm not exactly sure that Russia has a tremendous amount to offer China (Russia is no longer really a first rate geopolitical superpower), but as long as it's tactically sound, China will be happy to support Russia's military adventures. One would imagine they'll eventually fall out over border issues or energy production issues, though.
It's much different now compared to the years following WWII; China is the world's second largest economy, rapidly marching toward becoming number one. An alliance with China (both militaristic and economic) would greatly benefit Russia, not to mention China's political influence over the world.
For China, Russia would be their most powerful ally.
More importantly, ...[text shortened]... toward capitalism, being communist in name only. Powerful business-minded nations are frightening.