@athousandyoung saidThank you.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/jewish-zionist-terrorism-and-establishment-israel
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@vivify saidJesus, you're ignorant; of course it was "Israel's doing".
Yawn.
I already acknowledged that Palestinians were unfairly robbed of their land after WWII; but that wasn't Israel's doing, was it?
Palestinian attacks against Israel were understandable but that doesn't change the fact that Palestinians launched sustained unsuccessful offensives against Israel. Your worthless point that Palestinians suffered more damage as a result of their offensives is irrelevant.
And only someone completely bareft of knowledge of the events of the last 75 years can actually suggest that Israel hasn't launched numerous "offensives" which have resulted in thousands, at a minimum, of Palestinian and Arab deaths.
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@no1marauder saidThe Partition of Palestine into two states was largely the work of the UN. That is so basic a fact about where the conflict began, it's laughable you don't know this.
Jesus, you're ignorant; of course it was "Israel's doing".
And only someone completely bareft of knowledge of the events of the last 75 years can actually suggest that Israel hasn't launched numerous "offensives" which have resulted in thousands, at a minimum, of Palestinian and Arab deaths.
You're king of strawmen. Where did I say only Palestinians launched offensives? Either you're dishonest or have piss-poor reading comprehension.
@vivify saidThat's a laughable claim.
The Partition of Palestine into two states was largely the work of the UN. That is so basic a fact about where the conflict began, it's laughable you don't know this.
[b]And only someone completely bareft of knowledge of the events of the last 75 years can actually suggest that Israel hasn't launched numerous "offensives" which have resulted in thousands, at a minimum, of ...[text shortened]... Palestinians launched offensives? Either you're dishonest or have piss-poor reading comprehension.
If you ever get around to reading a history book, you'll soon discover that the non-binding UN partition plan was never put into effect. Jews in Palestine had been grabbing whatever land they could prior to 1948, including launching numerous terrorist attacks on British forces as well as doing considerable ethnic cleansing of various Arab areas. They declared independence with the full intention of militarily occupying as much of Palestine as they possibly could.
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@no1marauder saidIt was never put into effect? What are you talking about? That was British-controlled territory divided up by the UN, a division that resulted in the first Arab-Israeli war. I know barely squat about the history of this conflict, but how it began is basic high-school stuff.
That's a laughable claim.
If you ever get around to reading a history book, you'll soon discover that the non-binding UN partition plan was never put into effect. Jews in Palestine had been grabbing whatever land they could prior to 1948, including launching numerous terrorist attacks on British forces as well as doing considerable ethnic cleansing of various Arab are ...[text shortened]... endence with the full intention of militarily occupying as much of Palestine as they possibly could.
Per Thousand Young's link, I do agree that Jews were grabbing land before that, but the first Arab-Israeli war over Palestinian disagreement of the borders started after the partition, and have been raging ever since.
@vivify saidYou are wrong no matter what your substandard high school history class taught you.
It was never put into effect? What are you talking about? That was British-controlled territory divided up by the UN, a division that resulted in the first Arab-Israeli war. I know barely squat about the history of this conflict, but how it began is basic high-school stuff.
Per Thousand Young's link, I do agree that Jews were grabbing land before that, but the first Arab ...[text shortened]... alestinian disagreement of the borders started after the partition, and have been raging ever since.
The partition plan was never put into effect.
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@no1marauder saidSo what was the first Arab-Israeli war fought ever?
You are wrong no matter what your substandard high school history class taught you.
The partition plan was never put into effect.
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@vivify saidWhat do you think?
So what was the first Arab-Israeli war fought ever?
The Zionists wanted a State with most of Palestine under Jewish control, the residents of Palestine wanted self-determination.
EDIT: It's impossible to know, but perhaps the Palestinians would have accepted a fairer partition plan then what was offered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Proposed_partition
The Zionists were eventually offered over 60% of Palestine Moreover, their section which was to be declared a Jewish State was to have an almost 45% non-Jewish population while the Arab State would have barely more than 1% Jews.
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@no1marauder saidYes, after the Arabs rejected the Partition agreement. Why else were the borders renegotiated as part of the ceasefire?
What do you think?
The Zionists wanted a State with most of Palestine under Jewish control, the residents of Palestine wanted self-determination.
I think I see where your issue is:
https://www.britannica.com/place/West-Bank
"The Arab state whose creation was envisioned by the 1947 UN partition plan never came into being".
The plan for the *Arab* state never came into being but the plan for the state of Israel did.
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@vivify saidNo, it didn't.
Yes, after the Arabs rejected the Partition agreement. Why else were the borders renegotiated as part of the ceasefire?
I think I see where your issue is:
https://www.britannica.com/place/West-Bank
"The Arab state whose creation was envisioned by the 1947 UN partition plan never came into being".
The plan for the *Arab* state never came into being but the plan for the state of Israel did.
"The partition plan was never implemented because all Arab governments rejected it, arguing it violated the principles of national self-determination embedded in the U.N. charter."
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/un-votes-to-partition-palestine-nov-29-1947-216233#:~:text=The%20partition%20plan%20was%20never,charter.
"The UN plan, which never had any hope of succeeding was never implemented because as soon as the resolution was adopted, civil war broke out between the Jews and Arabs with the British squarely in the middle."
https://sofrep.com/specialoperations/november-29-1947-u-n-partition-plan-palestine-adopted/
"The United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending partitioning Palestine into Arab and Jewish States with economic union between them and that Jerusalem be a separate area to be administered by the United Nations for an initial period of ten years. The recommendation was not legally binding. The Arab population of Palestine and the Arab States rejected the partition plan. The Jewish population of Palestine accepted the plan, although with misgivings. The partition plan was not implemented."
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/international-law-and-the-arabisraeli-conflict/1947-partition-plan/BF9BEE2E6380D9CEAD0C710C6AC51C63
@vivify saidActually, I "comprehend" this fine:
The Partition of Palestine into two states was largely the work of the UN. That is so basic a fact about where the conflict began, it's laughable you don't know this.
[b]And only someone completely bareft of knowledge of the events of the last 75 years can actually suggest that Israel hasn't launched numerous "offensives" which have resulted in thousands, at a minimum, of ...[text shortened]... Palestinians launched offensives? Either you're dishonest or have piss-poor reading comprehension.
Vivify: Your worthless point that Palestinians suffered more damage as a result of their offensives is irrelevant.
That and your imbecilic Mike Tyson analogy clearly were blaming Palestinian "offensives" for any and all deaths caused by Israeli violence against the Palestinian People.
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@vivify saidYou did not say that; but you did essentially ignore them, by blaming the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, for fighting back against attacks which were begun by Zionists before Israel was even founded.
And only someone completely bareft of knowledge of the events of the last 75 years can actually suggest that Israel hasn't launched numerous "offensives" which have resulted in thousands, at a minimum, of Palestinian and Arab deaths.
You're king of strawmen. Where did I say only Palestinians launched offensives? Either you're dishonest or have piss-poor reading comprehension.
I find it... amusing is not the right word, but remarkable... that your insistence that Palestinians are to blame for Zionists murdering them and destroying their homes and their economy, follows rather the same reasoning as marauder's pseudo-legalistic ranting against Ukraine defending itself against Russia's Holomodor #2. You're both like an incompetent head of school telling the parents of a bullied school child that it's the boy's own fault for fighting back against the physical and sexual abuse.
@shallow-blue saidYou and kev have ceaselessly lied about my position regarding Russia's invasion of the Ukraine.
You did not say that; but you did essentially ignore them, by blaming the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, for fighting back against attacks which were begun by Zionists before Israel was even founded.
I find it... amusing is not the right word, but remarkable... that your insistence that Palestinians are to blame for Zionists murdering them and destroying the ...[text shortened]... school child that it's the boy's own fault for fighting back against the physical and sexual abuse.
You continue to do so which is shameful.
@shallow-blue saidYou don't know my posting history on this subject. I take issue with anyone who declares one side a good guy and the other a bad guy.
You did not say that; but you did essentially ignore them, by blaming the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, for fighting back against attacks which were begun by Zionists before Israel was even founded.
I find it... amusing is not the right word, but remarkable... that your insistence that Palestinians are to blame for Zionists murdering them and destroying the ...[text shortened]... school child that it's the boy's own fault for fighting back against the physical and sexual abuse.
There are threads where I'm responding to conservatives and have said the exact same thing you are. No1Maurader can attest to the fact that blasted Israel for taking over Palestinian territory and for their blockade. I've also criticized Israel for their apartheid state where Palestinians are treated like second-class citizens.
Liberals like No1, Duchess, etc., blame only Israel while conservatives blame only Palestine. Both are wrong. How you see me responding to No!Marauder is how I've responded conservatives.
I am not yet convinced there is a bad here and I can see on from both sides why they have attacked the other as they do. There is an terrible lack of nuance here that I think contributes to how people regard and ultimately deal with the Israeli-Palestinian issues.
That said, I do think that Israel is guilty of greater crimes than Palestine. The blockade is a gross human rights violation, so is kicking Palestinians out of their homes to build Israeli settlements. Zionism is also a problem contributing the situation.
I am not a defender of Israel or Palestine, depending on the subject. Stick around, you'll see me catch hate from conservatives when I blast them for trying ot make Israel look blameless.