@kevcvs57 saidYes it will stop and the rest of your post is rubbish. You do not understand the Palestinian cause... .. the river to the sea.. This is saying they want all of the land of Palestine. This is what the Hamas charter clearly spells out and they explain the method by which they hope to achieve this.
You think if the Palestinians all behave themselves the settlement of Palestinian lands by Israelis will stop?
@zahlanzi saidThe reason for retaliation is to send a message to both the attacker and the rest of the world that aggression will be punished. No nation just shrugs after an attack and says "well it's over now, what would retaliating accomplish?"
"But so is Israel's response to 1,200 murders and 240 hostages"
Why is it understandable? Does it accomplish anything? Anything they claim they would, anyway. because it definitely accomplishes the real goal which is kill as many Palestinians as possible.
The real goal which is kill as many Palestinians as possible
Not how your statement echoes that of the pro-Israeli right-wingers. How many of them have said Palestinians just want to wipe out as many Israelis as possible?
To make sure there's no misunderstanding: Israel has a long list of immoral actions, including unnecessary violence. My point is so do Palestinians. It's merely easier to point fingers at the bigger country because they look like bullies for taking the same actions.
Hamas' murder of 1,200 civilians was a drastic over-reaction to Palestinian evictions; so is Israel's murder of 20,000. The only difference is one is able to do more harm than than the other.
@mott-the-hoople saidThats the truth. There is no land for them anymore, there is no self-determination, no national home. Their failure was believing that violence would get rid of the Jews.
Maher is right…
https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere
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@vivify saidThe only goal is to finish Hamas, their leaders, their close supporters, and their infrastructure. Saving Palestinian lives is not of any interest to Israel.
The reason for retaliation is to send a message to both the attacker and the rest of the world that aggression will be punished. No nation just shrugs after an attack and says "well it's over now, what would retaliating accomplish?"
The real goal which is kill as many Palestinians as possible
Not how your statement echoes that of the pro-Israeli right-wingers. ...[text shortened]... Israel's murder of 20,000. The only difference is one is able to do more harm than than the other.
@zahlanzi saidDid Hamas really believe that they were going to get away with killing, raping and 1200 Jews, abusing and taking 200 hostages? Did you? You thought the Jews would kill 1200 Gazans and kidnap 200? You are an idiot.
first of all, being a socialist is not the insult you think it is.
second of all, thanks for proving my point. criticizing israel for killing around 20000 palestinians is jew hating, huh?
go fuk yourself you ghoul
The Jews are doing the right thing. These people are worse than animals. The death toll makes no difference. The war will continue until something happens:
- Hamas soldiers come out and surrrender
- Hamas gives up all their weapons
- Hamas stop firing rockets into Israel
Until then the bombing continues. If you have another solution to the problem I would be interested i nhearing it, but I know all people like you can to is support the terrorists and then complain when you get clobbered.
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@vivify saidFrom your website:
You're wrong. Bedouins have inhabit that land at least since the 1800s and possibly as early as the 1400s.
I even showed you a pro-Israel website saying this so you don't accuse the source of bias:
https://www.beinharimtours.com/bedouins-in-israel/
In the meantime, the Negev Bedouin have been claiming ownership of land in the Negev desert that amounts to 12 times the size of Tel Aviv! Since the 1970s, over 3.000 claims have been filed - the Bedouin argument is that these lands were illegally taken from them after 1948. They wish for these lands to be legally returned to them since they argue that they are indigenous people whose rights are continually being violated by the Israeli government.
These are very large portions of land they claim are theirs. Israel is famous for developing deserts and making them bloom and produce crops. These Bedouin do the opposite, they abuse the land and then move on into another area.
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@Zahlanzi
I don't disagree with most of what you say but it is in the Hamas agenda in writing to kill the state of Israel completely which doesn't justify Israeli's from stealing Palestinian lands and putting up thousands of houses there, which I saw up close and personal, having lived there for several years, working at Intel in Jerusalem.
I saw how the Israeli's took almost ALL of the Jordan river water for themselves and left rotten water not good for even watering crops much less drinking, for the Palestinians, and the US put in a one hundred million dollar red sea desalination plant to help the Palestinians at least get potable water.
I am a musician and on my first trip to Israel, I went to a local coffeehouse where folk music was playing and a guy by the name of Bruce Brill was playing banjo and I got in with him, playing one of his kids mandolins, good time was had by all and we quit at midnight. So I see him round up his to 5 and 6 yo girls, cart them off to his car while also bringing with him the biggest frigging pistols I ever saw with him in his car, I asked what that was all about, Oh, I live in the 'developments' (of course stolen land from the Palestinians) and need it for protection when I go home.
So I am thinking, ok you want to be a patriotic Israelis and such but why subject a couple of very young children to the possibility of attack by pissed off Palestinians?
He didn't answer that question.
All that said, I think Israel deserves to be a country which was to be compensation for the genocide inherent in Nazi Germany.
But the likes of Natan YAHOO is despicable, yet another dictator in training, learning from the likes of Trump and Mussolini.
@vivify said"No nation just shrugs after an attack and says "well it's over now, what would retaliating accomplish?" "
The reason for retaliation is to send a message to both the attacker and the rest of the world that aggression will be punished. No nation just shrugs after an attack and says "well it's over now, what would retaliating accomplish?"
The real goal which is kill as many Palestinians as possible
Not how your statement echoes that of the pro-Israeli right-wingers. ...[text shortened]... Israel's murder of 20,000. The only difference is one is able to do more harm than than the other.
Retaliating with brutality and not retaliating at all are not the only 2 options, you know that, right?
"It's merely easier to point fingers at the bigger country because they look like bullies for taking the same actions. "
Of course. What do you expect? US after 9/11 invaded 2 countries and bombed them for the actions of a few terrorists. hundreds of thousands of iraqis died, most civilians, for the actions of a few. ISIS spawned as a result. Afghanistan is right back where it started. Of bloody course we're pointing fingers at the US.
(I know damn well taking out terrorists was never the real reason US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, just as taking out Hamas is not the real reason Israel is bombing Gaza https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html "Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,”. Brutality is the actual purpose)
"Hamas' murder of 1,200 civilians was a drastic over-reaction to Palestinian evictions; so is Israel's murder of 20,000. The only difference is one is able to do more harm than than the other."
For fuk's sake that's not the only difference. One is a terrorist organization the other is a supposedly democratic state, ally to the "defender of freedom", US. One is, by definition, supposed to do terror attacks the other has options. One has billions of dollars in aid every year the other has rusty pipes and whatever crap they can get their hands on.
You are expecting a democratic country to behave like a terrorist organization? You don't see anything wrong with that? Hamas doesn't fukin care how many palestinians or israelis die.
Seriously, what is the point of all this? Are you actually trying to say Israel and Hamas are equivalent, that they are two terrorist organizations fighting it out with no concern over civilian deaths and they should both be treated as such?
@sonhouse said"I don't disagree with most of what you say but it is in the Hamas agenda in writing to kill the state of Israel "
@Zahlanzi
I don't disagree with most of what you say but it is in the Hamas agenda in writing to kill the state of Israel completely which doesn't justify Israeli's from stealing Palestinian lands and putting up thousands of houses there, which I saw up close and personal, having lived there for several years, working at Intel in Jerusalem.
I saw how the Israeli's took a ...[text shortened]... HOO is despicable, yet another dictator in training, learning from the likes of Trump and Mussolini.
Who cares? That's as likely to happen as a 10 year old describing how he will fight crime when he gets super powers.
Israel's doing the exact same thing Hamas is dreaming about doing to Israel, only Israel is doing it in bombing, not in writing. In blockading medicine and water and fuel.
We all seen the horrifying pictures of apartment blocks flattened. I encourage you to google "Palestinians rooftop barrels". Here is a link:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/15/water-war-palestinians-demand-more-water-access-from-israel
It's from 2021. No "october 7th", just "peacetime" reality. I wouldn't say this is as horrifying as people burried under ruble but in a way it is.
"All that said, I think Israel deserves to be a country"
Israel not being a country is as far into the realm of hypotheticals as me becoming emperor of mankind. You mentioned yourself just how much power Israel really has.
Can we please stop mentioning "Israel deserves to be a country" as a justification for the atrocities it commits, not even for the sake of "being a country" but simply to be "more" of one, for jews only.
@rajk999 said"Did Hamas really believe that they were going to get away with killing, raping and 1200 Jews, abusing and taking 200 hostages? "
Did Hamas really believe that they were going to get away with killing, raping and 1200 Jews, abusing and taking 200 hostages? Did you? You thought the Jews would kill 1200 Gazans and kidnap 200? You are an idiot.
The Jews are doing the right thing. These people are worse than animals. The death toll makes no difference. The war will continue until something happens ...[text shortened]... know all people like you can to is support the terrorists and then complain when you get clobbered.
Hamas did get away with it, you idiotic garbage person. It's regular civilians that are dying in Gaza and West Bank. Not Hamas. At most some middle management bit the dust and some minor inconsequential henchmen, all of which will be easily replaced, mostly from the newly created orphans and widowers and childless parents after all these bombings. The leadership of Hamas is not there to be bombed. Which of course it is, because Hamas is not the leadership of the palestinian people it's a bloody terrorist organization.
"The Jews are doing the right thing. These people are worse than animals. The death toll makes no difference."
I forgot to ask, did you go fuk yourself? I wouldn't want to tell you to go fuk yourself again, when you still haven't gotten around to fuking yourself for that time.
@rajk999 saidThe actual size of the land that belongs to Bedouins is a different issue. The original point was that they lived in the Negev long before the formation of Israel in 1948.
From your website:
[i]In the meantime, the Negev Bedouin have been claiming ownership of land in the Negev desert that amounts to 12 times the size of Tel Aviv! Since the 1970s, over 3.000 claims have been filed - the Bedouin argument is that these lands were illegally taken from them after 1948. They wish for these lands to be legally returned to them since they argue t ...[text shortened]... oduce crops. These Bedouin do the opposite, they abuse the land and then move on into another area.