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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Feb '11 18:06
    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743034/helen-thomas-jews-were-not-persecuted-in-europe-after-war-so-should-have-stayed-there

    Former White House correspondent Helen Thomas said the Jews did not have to leave postwar Europe because they weren’t persecuted.

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN’s “Joy Behar” program, Thomas told Behar that once World War II ended, the Jews “didn’t have to go anywhere really, because they weren’t being persecuted anymore. But they were taking other people’s land.”


    I know, I know...

    fish in a barrel...

    But every time she says something like this some people here end up defending her, so I'm, pushing the envelope just to see how far she can go without losing all support.
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    19 Feb '11 18:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    how far she can go without losing all support.
    She's not going to lose the Arab vote and sympathizers as long as she talks like that. That mindset has a core of true believers that will not go away.
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Feb '11 19:17
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743034/helen-thomas-jews-were-not-persecuted-in-europe-after-war-so-should-have-stayed-there

    [quote]Former White House correspondent Helen Thomas said the Jews did not have to leave postwar Europe because they weren’t persecuted.

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN’s “Joy Behar” program, Thomas told Behar that once ...[text shortened]... ng her, so I'm, pushing the envelope just to see how far she can go without losing all support.
    Are pro-Israel zealots so desperate for windmills to flail at that they still have to continue to criticize a 90+ year old retired journalist?
  4. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Feb '11 19:22 / 1 edit
    I think she's generally an idiot and I don't think "what if" speculations about history make much sense but I'll bite for the sake of the argument.

    Did the Jews who decided to remain in Europe continue to be persecuted after WWII?
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    19 Feb '11 19:36
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I think she's generally an idiot and I don't think "what if" speculations about history make much sense but I'll bite for the sake of the argument.

    Did the Jews who decided to remain in Europe continue to be persecuted after WWII?
    WHY DO U H8 TEH JEWS U NAZI
  6. 19 Feb '11 19:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743034/helen-thomas-jews-were-not-persecuted-in-europe-after-war-so-should-have-stayed-there

    [quote]Former White House correspondent Helen Thomas said the Jews did not have to leave postwar Europe because they weren’t persecuted.

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN’s “Joy Behar” program, Thomas told Behar that once ...[text shortened]... ng her, so I'm, pushing the envelope just to see how far she can go without losing all support.
    Maybe they were worried that the peace would be as unsuccessful as the previous one.
  7. 19 Feb '11 20:19
    helen thomas ( lebanese ancestry ) is just a wee bit old. when you get old you feel a great freedom to say what you really think. i think helen thomas is saying in public now
    what she has been saying at home for the past few decades.
  8. 19 Feb '11 20:37
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743034/helen-thomas-jews-were-not-persecuted-in-europe-after-war-so-should-have-stayed-there

    [quote]Former White House correspondent Helen Thomas said the Jews did not have to leave postwar Europe because they weren’t persecuted.

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN’s “Joy Behar” program, Thomas told Behar that once ...[text shortened]... ng her, so I'm, pushing the envelope just to see how far she can go without losing all support.
    So the Jews left to migrate and steal land from the Palestinians thinking they would not be hated?
    Only the British Empire could support a plan that would obviously backfire on the Jews so miserably. It must be a plan to use Jews as scapegoats for imperialism in that region.
    I feel sorry for the idiots who blame the Jews for British Imperialism.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Feb '11 20:43
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    So the Jews left to migrate and steal land from the Palestinians thinking they would not be hated?
    Only the British Empire could support a plan that would obviously backfire on the Jews so miserably. It must be a plan to use Jews as scapegoats for imperialism in that region.
    I feel sorry for the idiots who blame the Jews for British Imperialism.
  10. 19 Feb '11 20:49
    the jews were in the mandate territory before the zionist movement. it is estimated that there were about 300,000.

    since we are here, i think that egypt should incorporate gaza as an egyptian province and leave the future palestine to be centered at ramallah.
  11. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    19 Feb '11 21:03
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743034/helen-thomas-jews-were-not-persecuted-in-europe-after-war-so-should-have-stayed-there

    [quote]Former White House correspondent Helen Thomas said the Jews did not have to leave postwar Europe because they weren’t persecuted.

    In an interview Wednesday on CNN’s “Joy Behar” program, Thomas told Behar that once ...[text shortened]... ng her, so I'm, pushing the envelope just to see how far she can go without losing all support.
    um, what's the problem with the quote?


    Actually, if you only look at the words she said she isn't wrong. Anyone that isn't being persecuted doesn't need to leave. Is the question whether jews were actually being persecuted after world war 2 in europe?

    Your real point here seems to be her contention that it was wrong to create israel and give the jews a "home" by giving them land that wasn't currently being occupied by them. If this is your bone of contention, then i suggest you are on limited grounds for a retort.

    Perhaps you can give us a valid, non-bible based reason for the creation of israel.
  12. 19 Feb '11 21:07 / 1 edit
    the grand mufti of jerusalem was a close ally of hitler. the nazis paid for a radio station for him to broadcast anti-jewish commentary. the grand mufti visited berlin ( and probably joked and had drinks with heinrich and the fellows as they had a nazi-arab map laid out on the table ).

    when you lose a war you lose territory.

    the grand mufti went down with hitler and mussolini.

    from wikipedia on a partial bio of the grand mufti

    "During the years of World War II he was involved in recruiting Arab support for Nazi Germany. He died in exile in Cairo in 1974.'
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Feb '11 21:35
    Originally posted by reinfeld
    the grand mufti of jerusalem was a close ally of hitler. the nazis paid for a radio station for him to broadcast anti-jewish commentary. the grand mufti visited berlin ( and probably joked and had drinks with heinrich and the fellows as they had a nazi-arab map laid out on the table ).

    when you lose a war you lose territory.

    the grand mufti went dow ...[text shortened]... was involved in recruiting Arab support for Nazi Germany. He died in exile in Cairo in 1974.'
    So the Palestinians "lost" WWII? Doesn't that require that they actually fight in it?
  14. 19 Feb '11 21:37
    Originally posted by reinfeld
    the grand mufti of jerusalem was a close ally of hitler. the nazis paid for a radio station for him to broadcast anti-jewish commentary. the grand mufti visited berlin ( and probably joked and had drinks with heinrich and the fellows as they had a nazi-arab map laid out on the table ).

    when you lose a war you lose territory.

    the grand mufti went dow ...[text shortened]... was involved in recruiting Arab support for Nazi Germany. He died in exile in Cairo in 1974.'
    It was an alliance of convenience. They enemy of my enemy is my friend, sort of.

    The British Empire (through Lawrence of Arabia) promised to give the Arabs the entire Arabian Peninsula in return for their help to help fight the Ottomans and drive them out of the region. The British Empire did not carry through with that promise even though the Arabs did their part and drove out the Ottomans. To add insult to injury they installed a puppet government in post WW1 Iraq and encouraged the migration of Jews to Palestine.
  15. 19 Feb '11 21:44
    Originally posted by uzless
    um, what's the problem with the quote?


    Actually, if you only look at the words she said she isn't wrong. Anyone that isn't being persecuted doesn't need to leave. Is the question whether jews were actually being persecuted after world war 2 in europe?

    Your real point here seems to be her contention that it was wrong to create israel and give the jew ...[text shortened]... t.

    Perhaps you can give us a valid, non-bible based reason for the creation of israel.
    What you are asking for, I hope, is a rational self-interest reason for the Jews to leave Europe after WWII and a second rational self-interest reason for them to go to Palestine. The two items might have differing reasons, and one might be easier to decide than the other. Of course when there are large numbers of people as there were here, there may be differing reasons, but there can be an overarching reason for the will to act en masse.

    A rational self interest reason can be in reaction to an emotion, and can be based on wrong or incomplete information. Even if they were not being actively persecuted, my suggestion earlier that the Jews might not at that point in time have been convinced that the peace would last, is still a candidate basis for fear. Whether they really had friends in the Allies, or whether the Soviets would be trouble, could have been questions they saw as serious. Whether Palestine offered better opportunities than just an escape, was another. The opportunity to run a new government had to be appealing to many. I need to do some research or maybe somebody can enlighten me about the degree to which the Jews were offered the choice of "Palestine or some X", and were what were the carrots and sticks. At any rate this can be the basis of a constructive friendly discussion of alternative ideas.

    The Biblical explanation could have been actually believed by many and could have used as a made-to-order rallying point, but either way it is not a rational self-interest reason, so excluding it is appropriate. After all, nobody does what God wants just because He wants it.