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@kazetnagorra saidPoverty isn't the the full picture. How do you reconcile the fact that most of the poorest states in the US, have the highest gun ownership rates and are among the least violent?
There seems to be a lot of violence in poor areas.
Have you guys considered doing something about poverty?
@joe-shmo saidWhy would you be asking me ?
Firstly, any strategy should focus on the epicenter of the outbreak. Where are these slews of violent crime occurring?
You have a President, that you want to install for a second term, who had a handle on this.
January 20, 2017
"The carnage stops here and now !!"
Spoken with full authority and commitment.
Finally after almost 3 1/2 years, he has taken his first step by declaring himself a law and order President.
And that was only to distract from his abject failure in his COVID 19 pandemic response.
Yup !!
This thread shouldn't even have been opened.
You've already got your guy to dominate the issue.
Nice mask, btw. 🤔
@mghrn55 saidBy all means. Maybe salvage the thread.
Seeing as you started this thread, perhaps you have some idea as to who would be best suited to solve this violence pandemic ?
Perhaps you would like to share your thoughts with us in that regard ?
After all, you seem motivated enough to start this thread.
You must be going somewhere with this. Hmmm ?
In my life I have watched as society has gone softer and softer on crime.
When I was young, rape could get you the death sentence, as an example.
Not just a life sentence, the death penalty. That SoB Epstein was treated
so lightly in 2012, unforgiveable!! That enabled him another 8 year run of crime.
Somewhere along the way, violent people were not taken off the streets
as often or as long, nor were they automatically re-arrested when they were
caught in clear violation of their terms of parole, as was the case in earlier times.
Also, some violent people are given house arrest with an ankle monitor, and
many times such people simply violate those terms and leave.
Our society has become numb to acts of violence and we act like it's no big
deal, it's just the way life is. Well, we can should do much better.
A lot of what we can do is to teach mutual acceptance, mutual respect.
It begins with the parents and schools. Treat bullies for what they are!
It begins with making examples of violent people, especially when these acts of
violence occur to the most vulnerable of us, the children and the elderly.
That's a beginning.
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@kazetnagorra saidThe two most impoverished states for years have been Maine and Mississippi.
There seems to be a lot of violence in poor areas.
Have you guys considered doing something about poverty?
I don't think they have especially high rates of violence.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-safety
1. Maine (most safe)
26. Mississippi
In fact they do darn well. Now let's look at poverty
36. Maine
51. Mississippi (most poor)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income
Poverty and crime do not make a good correlation here. Not at all.
@earl-of-trumps saidSooooo......the point here......
By all means. Maybe salvage the thread.
In my life I have watched as society has gone softer and softer on crime.
When I was young, rape could get you the death sentence, as an example.
Not just a life sentence, the death penalty. That SoB Epstein was treated
so lightly in 2012, unforgiveable!! That enabled him another 8 year run of crime.
Somewhere along the ...[text shortened]...
violence occur to the most vulnerable of us, the children and the elderly.
That's a beginning.
The President identified the issue on Jan 20, 2017.
Should the current COVID 19 pandemic be put on the backburner for this serious issue you started a thread on ?
The question I put forward.....
Who do you have in mind as the best person to deal with this very serious problem you had to start a thread about ?
You don't have to give us a refresher on what ails your society.
Who's your guy to fix this ?
@joe-shmo saidThese states have very high rates of violent crime compared to wealthy countries that have effectively tackled poverty.
Poverty isn't the the full picture. How do you reconcile the fact that most of the poorest states in the US, have the highest gun ownership rates and are among the least violent?
Sooooo......the point here......
The President identified the issue on Jan 20, 2017.
Should the current COVID 19 pandemic be put on the backburner for this serious issue you started a thread on ?
Seriously, if you don't wish to participate in the thread, please do not clog the
thread up with silly statements and questions.
The question I put forward.....
Who do you have in mind as the best person to deal with this very serious problem you had to start a thread about ?
You don't have to give us a refresher on what ails your society.
Who's your guy to fix this ?
We need a spiritual awakening. the clergy and political leaders.
And I mean REAL leaders.
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@kazetnagorra saidIt could be a coincidence. I've demonstrated above where poverty does not
These states have very high rates of violent crime compared to wealthy countries that have effectively tackled poverty.
correlate to criminal activity. Maines is the state that is least affected by crime
and they are a poor state. It is only recently they moved up from amongst the
poorest in the nation.
Here's one that might work:
85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]
Fatherless families!
But believe me, the politically correct will never move on it. Women's groups
for years have said that a woman can do it all. just replace the man with a
welfare check. They are not fond of the traditional family at all.
https://thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress.com/statistics/
You may want to read that. It is staggering the correlations between fatherless
kids and the ills that beset society
@earl-of-trumps saidThere are plenty of "fatherless families" in the aforementioned wealthy countries with low poverty and crime.
It could be a coincidence. I've demonstrated above where poverty does not
correlate to criminal activity. Maines is the state that is least affected by crime
and they are a poor state. It is only recently they moved up from amongst the
poorest in the nation.
Here's one that might work:
[quote]85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton Count ...[text shortened]... ead that. It is staggering the correlations between fatherless
kids and the ills that beset society
Abolishing welfare payments to single parents would certainly lead to an increase in crime as well as domestic violence.
World Incarceration Rates, Prisoners per 100,000 Population
Please understand that yes, I am cherry picking here but I think the effort shows
that poverty is not the determining factor in crime that Americans think it is.
We think of America itself as a rich nation, of course. Then why does it lead the
entire world in violence? Here are some stats to back that up.
It is a comparison between the USA and countries that are considered "poor"
Country........................... Prisoners per 100,000 population.
United States - 655
Afghanistan - 87
Burkina Faso - 39
Chad - 59
China - 120
Cuba - 510 (the correlation does not always hold true)
Egypt - 116
Guinea Bissau -10
Haiti - 80
Kenya - 102
Laos - 130
Niger - 44
Nigeria - 36
Syria - 60
Yemen - 53
=========================
'Nuff said?? America is amongst the richest countries in the world, plenty of
opportunity, and FIRST in the world in prisoners per population.
We have a violence problem in America. and poverty is NOT the cause
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
@earl-of-trumps saidAlmost all of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are there because of non-violent minor offenses. The reason for this is not crime, which is not particularly high in the U.S. by third-world standards, but a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system that provides incentives for long sentences for minor crimes.
World Incarceration Rates, Prisoners per 100,000 Population
Please understand that yes, I am cherry picking here but I think the effort shows
that poverty is not the determining factor in crime that Americans think it is.
We think of America itself as a rich nation, of course. Then why does it lead the
entire world in violence? Here are some stats to bac ...[text shortened]... poverty is NOT the cause
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
The link between violent crime and poverty/inequality is, however, well-documented. See e.g. Pablo Fajnzylber, Daniel Lederman, and Norman Loayza, "Inequality and Violent Crime," The Journal of Law and Economics 45, no. 1 (April 2002): 1-39.
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Almost all of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are there because of non-violent minor offenses. The reason for this is not crime, which is not particularly high in the U.S. by third-world standards, but a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system that provides incentives for long sentences for minor crimes.
You have not supplied comparative statistics to back this up. I can think of one
example that contras it right away. In Saudi Arabia, they cut your hand off for
theft. They flog you for infidelity. You'll have to show me in statistical form that
many poor countries are more tolerant to crime than America before I will
accept it.
The link between violent crime and poverty/inequality is, however, well-documented. See e.g. Pablo Fajnzylber, Daniel Lederman, and Norman Loayza, "Inequality and Violent Crime," The Journal of Law and Economics 45, no. 1 (April 2002): 1-39.
I suppose the article is worthy of a look-see.
But here is what I know about crime in America. A lot of it is in the inner city.
And if you look, you will see a great deal of that is in the so-called poor sections
of the city, the welfare flats.
Two things about that: 1) Welfare people are far from poor. They are emotionally
troubled people but have a secure income, when converting their benefits into
cash value, and are slightly below average. So why then, do they have rampant
crime, a lot more than in the areas of town where poor working families exist?
And 2) the children of the welfare flats are almost exclusively in fatherless homes.
My personal opinion:
Some have pushed the narrative that poverty is the main link to crime. But let's
remember that fatherless families lead to poverty, too. (including divorced parents)
Further, I think that the political left will push the narrative of poverty is the
reason for high crime because it alludes to solving the problem by economically
making people equal, or moreso. And I also think that they ignore the fatal
statistics of fatherless families because the left heavily supports non-nuclear,
non-traditional families.
My opinions.
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A little story here, I hope it entertains as well as instructs.
A man from Nigeria came to America to go to college on a basketball
scholarship at the University of Houston.
His name is Akeem Olajuwon. "Akeem the dream" was so good at his game that
he got an offer to play in the NBA pro league. And the money was huge because he was the top draft pick.
Akeem decided to stay here in the states to play professional ball.
Well, it turns out, this greatly angered Akeem's father, who was a big businessman
and had expected Akeem to return home after his education and help him run
the concrete business that his father owned. One of the chief complaints that
Akeem's father had with Akeem living here in the US was him living in a
crime ridden society, and city (He played for the Houston Rockets)
To me, this speaks volumes. And btw, Akeem made the NBA hall of fame.
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@earl-of-trumps saidYou could also claim that poverty creates a tendency toward single parent families which in turn leads to poverty etc it’s almost certainly cyclical and in that cycle you will find higher rates of criminal convictions but the idea that there is no direct correlation between poverty and crime is a bit ‘flat Earth society’ for me.
@KazetNagorraAlmost all of the people incarcerated in the U.S. are there because of non-violent minor offenses. The reason for this is not crime, which is not particularly high in the U.S. by third-world standards, but a corrupt and dysfunctional legal system that provides incentives for long sentences for minor crimes.
You have not supplied comparati ...[text shortened]... families because the left heavily supports non-nuclear,
non-traditional families.
My opinions.
As for your examples of two relatively poor states with relatively low crime rates. You would need to look at poverty hotspots within the relatively better off states to determine the lack of correlation that you are claiming.
I can remember my father saying that when he was a child “everyone left their door open because nobody had anything worth stealing” it’s anecdotal and at that time there was no widespread drug culture, however organised crime gangs are well documented going way back and they definitely recruited from poverty hot spots.