1. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    28 May '10 10:00
    Originally posted by sh76
    War is justified when the other guy shoots first.
    Playground morality, awesome.
  2. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 13:49
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Playground morality, awesome.
    If someone commits an act of war against you, then what are you supposed to do?
  3. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 13:50
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Israel is a criminal nation.

    Currently Israel is blocking aid from abroad so it cannot reach Gaza.
    The Gaza people is suffering and human nations cannot even help them.

    Israel is a criminal nation.

    If Israel want stable peace, then they shoud start to act humanely.

    Until then - Israel is a criminal nation.
    Maybe if you say it 4 times in one post, that will make it true. At only 3 times, you're being too ambiguous.
  4. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    28 May '10 13:51
    Originally posted by sh76
    Maybe if you say it 4 times in one post, that will make it true. At only 3 times, you're being too ambiguous.
    It doesn't have to be said at all. Its truth is obvious.
  5. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 14:063 edits
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    What started operation Cast Lead?

    Ps: It's that time of the month again. 😛
    🙂

    Yes.

    To be honest, I'm not sure why I even do this.

    It's ironic. When I'm dealing with my friends and family members, I'm the dove. I'm the guy arguing for the Palestinian state and ripping the idea of the settlements, etc.

    But here, the opposition to everything Israel seems so overwhelming so often, I can't help but ride to Israel's defense.

    The cycle generally goes something like:

    1) Something about Israel comes up; either me defending it or any one of 10 or 12 others lambasting it. I may be wrong, but I can't recall anyone else starting a thread to defend Israel.

    2) I come to Israel's defense.

    3) Somewhere between 5 and 10 people attack my comment. Roughly 1/3 of them will address my point, 1/3 of them will ignore my point and go after Israel on general principles and the last 1/3 will call into question my sanity, education, morality, fitness to discuss matters in the debates forum or sexual orientation.

    3) Whodey or Zeeblebot will defend my position with a general sardonic comment that more attacks the general double standard of the American or European left than it does really address the issue; but is welcome nonetheless.

    4) ATY and Generalissimo will chime in to hedge their bet with a neutral comment or a comment that softly supports one side or the other. Kmax may also help the Israeli cause at times, but only if the most clever comment he can think of happens to be one that supports Israel.

    5) The argument, which is basically me against 5 or 6 others, will rage for a few days.

    6) The argument will slowly die as I become emotionally exhausted discussing the matter and take a personal vow to stop discussing Israel on the forum to ensure that my BP* stays down.

    7) Everything will stay quiet on the Israel front for a few weeks

    8) Rinse, lather, repeat.





    * - No, not that BP! THAT BP will have no trouble staying down, I assure you.
  6. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    42677
    28 May '10 14:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    Strawman.

    When did I ever say that blockading Gaza is not an act of war?

    Of course it's an act of war. War is justified when the other guy shoots first.


    Edit: The blockade of Tiran was (along with other hostile acts) a justification for the attack on Egypt; not any other country.
    War is also justified when someone steals your land and represses you.

    The Israeli blockade of Gaza was not initially in response to any armed act, but to Hamas coming to power. Is it an "act of war" for the Palestinians to have a "government" that Israel doesn't like?
  7. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    42677
    28 May '10 14:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    🙂

    Yes.

    To be honest, I'm not sure why I even do this.

    It's ironic. When I'm dealing with my friends and family members, I'm the dove. I'm the guy arguing for the Palestinian state and ripping the idea of the settlements, etc.

    But here, the opposition to everything Israel seems so overwhelming so often, I can't help but ride to Israel's defense.

    ...[text shortened]...




    * - No, not that BP! THAT BP will have no trouble staying down, I assure you.
    It's no wonder why your arguments are so weak and lacking in factual support; you don't even believe them.
  8. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 14:18
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    War is also justified when someone steals your land and represses you.

    The Israeli blockade of Gaza was not initially in response to any armed act, but to Hamas coming to power. Is it an "act of war" for the Palestinians to have a "government" that Israel doesn't like?
    It's an act of war to have a government who openly and proudly launches terrorist attacks against you under a proudly and openly stated mission to destroy you.
  9. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 14:19
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It's no wonder why your arguments are so weak and lacking in factual support; you don't even believe them.
    category 3
  10. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    42677
    28 May '10 14:30
    Originally posted by sh76
    category 3
    Category true.

    sh76: When I'm dealing with my friends and family members, I'm the dove. I'm the guy arguing for the Palestinian state and ripping the idea of the settlements, etc.

    But here, the opposition to everything Israel seems so overwhelming so often, I can't help but ride to Israel's defense.

    So you don't even believe your pathetic arguments here. That's a relief; the last thing we need is another whodey.
  11. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    42677
    28 May '10 14:33
    Originally posted by sh76
    It's an act of war to have a government who openly and proudly launches terrorist attacks against you under a proudly and openly stated mission to destroy you.
    In other words, it's an "act of war" for Palestinians to resist occupation. Maybe so, but the occupation, not the Palestinian resistance to it, is a violation of IL. The Palestinians are justified to fight Israel so long as Israel occupies and oppresses them, but Israel is not justified to occupy and repress them. So Israel is guilty of Crimes against Peace, War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity.
  12. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    28 May '10 14:44
    Originally posted by sh76
    If someone commits an act of war against you, then what are you supposed to do?
    Something which is in the interests of your own people is a good place to start.
  13. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
    Joined
    26 Dec '07
    Moves
    17585
    28 May '10 14:49
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Category true.

    sh76: When I'm dealing with my friends and family members, I'm the dove. I'm the guy arguing for the Palestinian state and ripping the idea of the settlements, etc.

    But here, the opposition to everything Israel seems so overwhelming so often, I can't help but ride to Israel's defense.

    So you don't even be ...[text shortened]... your pathetic arguments here. That's a relief; the last thing we need is another whodey.
    You're missing the point.

    I AM in favor of a Palestinian state and I am (in general) against the settlements, here and elsewhere.

    What I am NOT for is denying Israel the right to defend itself and the "international community" holding Israel to the ridiculous double standard that it does.

    There is no inconsistency between arguing in favor of a peaceful Palestinian state to those who oppose it and arguing in favor of Israel being allowed to defend itself to those who oppose that.

    My "pathetic" arguments are more than capable of making mincemeat of your hateful diatribes.
  14. Subscriberkmax87
    Blade Runner
    Republicants
    Joined
    09 Oct '04
    Moves
    105105
    28 May '10 16:241 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Kmax may also help the Israeli cause at times, but only if the most clever comment he can think of happens to be one that supports Israel.
    This sounds like a Graucho Marxism....You have the right to remain silent, but you may give up that right at any time by saying something funny....^^ ---...
  15. Standard memberadam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    Ceres
    Joined
    14 Oct '06
    Moves
    18375
    29 May '10 00:14
    Originally posted by sh76
    🙂

    Yes.

    To be honest, I'm not sure why I even do this.

    It's ironic. When I'm dealing with my friends and family members, I'm the dove. I'm the guy arguing for the Palestinian state and ripping the idea of the settlements, etc.

    But here, the opposition to everything Israel seems so overwhelming so often, I can't help but ride to Israel's defense.

    ...[text shortened]...




    * - No, not that BP! THAT BP will have no trouble staying down, I assure you.
    You do it because you love to stir up the pot. I know it because I do it too.

    In what category do you place me in your point 3?

    It's an act of war to have a government who openly and proudly launches terrorist attacks against you under a proudly and openly stated mission to destroy you.

    Now, now; you know that not to be exactly true.

    What I am NOT for is denying Israel the right to defend itself and the "international community" holding Israel to the ridiculous double standard that it does.

    What about Palestine right to defend itself? What about Palestinian rights to self-determination? What double standards are you talking about? Israel gets fair game in almost everything that they do (and when the word gets out it's little more than harsh words. For a lot less a lot of countries were invaded and/or got ral sanctions imposed on them), and their most grave offenses to human rights are barely reported.

    There is no inconsistency between arguing in favor of a peaceful Palestinian state to those who oppose it and arguing in favor of Israel being allowed to defend itself to those who oppose that.

    Who opposes the right of Israel to defend itself. I never saw this position being defended here (truth be told that I'm not in the debate forum for a long time) and I don't know of anybody who thinks like that.
    On the other hand there's a lot of Israeli politicians that seem to think that Palestinians have no right defending themselves. There seems to be a lot of Israel politicians that think that whenever Palestinians defend themselves they are committing some kind of grave sin that must be swiftly dealt with.

    YouTube
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree