@averagejoe1 saidNot everyone reports their income. Drug dealers and high price prostitutes would pay a low percentage of their income for hiding that income. You would have to outlaw cash.
It has been suggested in the Heroic thread that the amount of fines paid by law breakers (speeding, etc) be based on their incomes.....'that, we might pay $100.00, but that Bezos pay more like a million.
What does everyone think about that?
I like the concept though.
@metal-brain saidI think there are other legal ramifications of being a drug dealer and prostitute, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but bezos and his billionaire pals are quite adept at hiding their income too.
Not everyone reports their income. Drug dealers and high price prostitutes would pay a low percentage of their income for hiding that income. You would have to outlaw cash.
I like the concept though.
@moonbus saidFines and prison sentences are not the same. Don't bunch them together. You give someone a fine specifically because you don't want to send them to jail but you would still like them and others to stop doing that crap.
Apropos the thread title: should prison sentences be based on someone's income?
Should a different standard of punishment be applied to fines and prison sentences? If so, how is that reconcilable with "equal protection of the laws" and "no arbitrary punishments" ?
A progressive fine is not arbitrary. It's dependent on one's income and all will be treated the same. Bezos will get a billion dollar fine for driving 120km/h in a residential area just like Zuckerberg or Elon Musk would get a billion dollar fine.
As it is right now we do not have "equal protection of the laws". If one has to go hungry at the end of a given month because a 100$ screwed up his budget that someone has a very large incentive not to do that fineable action. If Bezos has to pay a 100$ fine it will do exactly jack to deter him. He could even choose not to pay it. You have any idea how long such a fine must stay unpaid that the late fees would inconvenience Bezos?
If the fine would be one tic tac for illegal parking, wouldn't most just keep a box of them in the glove compartment and just throw one to whoever issued them the ticket? Even the most moral of people would still double park once in a while rather than walk for a kilometer because they just didn't find a free spot.
@no1marauder saidYes, but not all to the same extent.
No it isn't. Deprivation of liberty is something all reasonable persons wish to avoid.
Which is the point.
There are almost infinite variables that make the same punishment affect different people differently. To a professional gang member, a felony conviction may be a badge of honor but to a doctor, it may mean the end of his career. So, should the gang member get a longer prison term because the doctor is already being punished by losing his career?
Or should we simply punish the offense in an even-handed manner?
@averagejoe1 saidPossibly.
@AverageJoe1
I'm wary, though. SH76 may be a lib plant! Too good to be true!
We'll never know, will we?
@zahlanzi saidLMFAO...is this really your stance?
Fines and prison sentences are not the same. Don't bunch them together. You give someone a fine specifically because you don't want to send them to jail but you would still like them and others to stop doing that crap.
A progressive fine is not arbitrary. It's dependent on one's income and all will be treated the same. Bezos will get a billion dollar fine for driving 120 ...[text shortened]... ble park once in a while rather than walk for a kilometer because they just didn't find a free spot.
@no1marauder said"Deprivation of liberty is something all reasonable persons wish to avoid.'
No it isn't. Deprivation of liberty is something all reasonable persons wish to avoid.
except liberals
@kevcvs57 saidI agree. Anybody can hide their money in the Cayman Islands or South Dakota and nobody would know except the guy you hire to manage your money and assets. I read this article last night.
I think there are other legal ramifications of being a drug dealer and prostitute, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but bezos and his billionaire pals are quite adept at hiding their income too.
https://www.axios.com/south-dakota-global-tax-haven-5120d206-20ab-4cc1-ba91-d1d59fe22487.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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@sh76 saidI don't agree with your apparent stance that the value of personal liberty increases with income and wealth.
Yes, but not all to the same extent.
Which is the point.
There are almost infinite variables that make the same punishment affect different people differently. To a professional gang member, a felony conviction may be a badge of honor but to a doctor, it may mean the end of his career. So, should the gang member get a longer prison term because the doctor is already being punished by losing his career?
Or should we simply punish the offense in an even-handed manner?
All sentencing is supposed to be individualized and take into account the personal circumstances of the offender. That's "even handed", isn't it?
You could make a good argument that those who have most benefited from the system are more morally culpable and reprehensible when they violate its laws. Also that harsher monetary fines on those with means better serve the criminal law's purpose of deterrence.
@no1marauder saidAs if black people's circumstances are taken into consideration by most judges.
I don't agree with your apparent stance that the value of personal liberty increases with income and wealth.
All sentencing is supposed to be individualized and take into account the personal circumstances of the offender. That's "even handed", isn't it?
You ought to know better.
@metal-brain saidTry reading the sentence.
As if black people's circumstances are taken into consideration by most judges.
You ought to know better.
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@moonbus saidNo prison sentences should not be based in someone’s income but I think most grown ups realise that the lower your income the greater your chances of going to prison for a comparable crime and you will, on average, be there longer too.
Apropos the thread title: should prison sentences be based on someone's income?
Should a different standard of punishment be applied to fines and prison sentences? If so, how is that reconcilable with "equal protection of the laws" and "no arbitrary punishments" ?
But the thread title is about fines. If any given fine us meant to be a combination of punishment and deterrent then they must be means tested in order to be either.