Socialist Death Plan for Babies

Originally posted by Kewpie
It doesn't surprise me one bit that the long, factual and thoughtful post at the top of this page has been ignored by all the barrow-pushers.

Long, factual and thoughtful posts from finnegan are par for the course. It's got 4 thumbs up so far, an unusual tally for this forum. I don't think it has been ignored. 😵

Originally posted by finnegan
Lots wrong in this discussion.

I spent a few days in an NHS cardiac ward last month, and was let out with stents after having my life saved free of charge. I was back on this site making a mess of some games in no time at all. I thought at the time how delighted I am every day not to be a victim of the US healthcare system, where my life would have depe ...[text shortened]... ty of my insurance policy and the decisions about my treatment would be made by accountants.

Well, I'm glad you had a good experience with the NHS and I have no wish to criticize the NHS, but your slur on the American system is just plain inaccurate. First, hospitals are not allowed to deny life saving treatment to anyone based on inability to pay. While it's true that had you no insurance, the procedure may have bankrupted you, the more likely scenario is that you would have insurance. I don't know your age, but if you're 65+ you have Medicare. If you're poor you have Medicaid. If you have a white collar job, your company probably has a plan. In all, if you're an average person or something near it, you have health insurance and virtually ANY insurance plan, even the most bare bones plan, covers the sort of life saving treatment you're describing.

Once we're on the topic of personal anecdotes, I (like most people) have had grandparents and great aunts and uncles and friends and whatnot get old and need these sorts of heart, lung and cancer treatments that people tend to need as they get older. I have never in my life personally known anyone that was denied a life saving treatment of any kind.

Originally posted by sh76
Well, I'm glad you had a good experience with the NHS and I have no wish to criticize the NHS, but your slur on the American system is just plain inaccurate. First, hospitals are not allowed to deny life saving treatment to anyone based on inability to pay. While it's true that had you no insurance, the procedure may have bankrupted you, the more likely scenari ...[text shortened]... in my life personally known anyone that was denied a life saving treatment of any kind.

Neither have I.

Originally posted by sh76
I have never in my life personally known anyone that was denied a life saving treatment of any kind.

So if this is the case, and the US system ensures that those who need treatment get it, then presumably it's not true, as Eladar said, that "If everyone is going to get medical care, then you have to make cuts."

Originally posted by sh76
Well, I'm glad you had a good experience with the NHS and I have no wish to criticize the NHS, but your slur on the American system is just plain inaccurate. First, hospitals are not allowed to deny life saving treatment to anyone based on inability to pay. While it's true that had you no insurance, the procedure may have bankrupted you, the more likely scenari ...[text shortened]... in my life personally known anyone that was denied a life saving treatment of any kind.

In Ireland more and more people are turning away from private health insurance
for 2 reasons.

1. It is so expensive......and

2. It does not cover all that you would like it to cover.

Many people here have been ripped off by private health insurance companies
like the VHI and BUPA and others paying lots of money to them every year only
to find that when a problem does arise, the Insurance company tries to deny
liability and cover for that particular problem.

More and more people are getting sick of it and are now turning back in huge
numbers to public healthcare. It's not perfect, it takes a long time due to
waiting lists. But if you are prepared to wait then you are better off.

Private healthcare here in Ireland?
The only benefit is that you get seen to more quickly.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
In Ireland more and more people are turning away from private health insurance
for 2 reasons.

1. It is so expensive......and

2. It does not cover all that you would like it to cover.

Many people here have been ripped off by private health insurance companies
like the VHI and BUPA and others paying lots of money to them every year only
t ...[text shortened]...

Private healthcare here in Ireland?
The only benefit is that you get seen to more quickly.

I recently read an article (but I think it was Daily Mail) that reported Britons were going toward private health insurance because the wait times were so long. Not trying to be contradictory; I'd assume Ireland and England have the same health plan. Are there differences?

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Not trying to be contradictory; I'd assume Ireland and England have the same health plan. Are there differences?

Why would you assume this? They are separate independent countries!

Originally posted by Teinosuke
So if this is the case, and the US system ensures that those who need treatment get it, then presumably it's not true, as Eladar said, that "If everyone is going to get medical care, then you have to make cuts."

There's a difference between all the care necessary to save one's life and all medical care one wants. Getting life saving heart surgery is not a problem in the US. But if you want an MRI on your lower back to diagnose back pain, you need to make sure you have insurance that covers it.

Originally posted by sh76
There's a difference between all the care necessary to save one's life and all medical care one wants. Getting life saving heart surgery is not a problem in the US. But if you want an MRI on your lower back to diagnose back pain, you need to make sure you have insurance that covers it.

The problem with such a system is that it means people will not get treated until they need it to save their life, while getting checked up as soon as you believe something might be wrong is both cheaper and more effective.

Originally posted by Teinosuke
Why would you assume this? They are separate independent countries!

I thought it was a UK plan.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
I thought it was a UK plan.

The Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom (although Northern Ireland still, controversially, is).

The Republic of Ireland won its independence from the UK in the 1920s.

Originally posted by sh76
Well, I'm glad you had a good experience with the NHS and I have no wish to criticize the NHS, but your slur on the American system is just plain inaccurate. First, hospitals are not allowed to deny life saving treatment to anyone based on inability to pay. While it's true that had you no insurance, the procedure may have bankrupted you, the more likely scenari in my life personally known anyone that was denied a life saving treatment of any kind.

So the American Journal of Public Health is full of crap when they say 45,000 Americans die every year because of lack of health insurance?http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-18/health/deaths.health.insurance_1_health-insurance-david-himmelstein-debate-over-health-care?_s=PM:HEALTH


Whew; problem solved. I guess we can just repeal the PPACA and go back to the "best health care system in the world" that right wingers like yourself claim we have.

EDIT: Those idiots at the Harvard Medical School should have mined the unquestioned well of your anecdotal experience in Upper Middle Class Land before they stupidly claimed based on so-called "research" "that the uninsured have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care".

Originally posted by Teinosuke
The Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom (although Northern Ireland still, controversially, is).

The Republic of Ireland won its independence from the UK in the 1920s.

Right. Second cup of coffee required...

Originally posted by sasquatch672
I thought it was a UK plan.

Let's see, what would you say in this situation...

Oh yes:

(1) Stick with what you know.
(2) You're way past your depth.

You have an awful lot of geopolitical opinions about a world you know very little about.

Originally posted by Soothfast
Let's see, what would you say in this situation...

Oh yes:

(1) Stick with what you know.
(2) You're way past your depth.

You have an awful lot of geopolitical opinions about a world you know very little about.

A-ha...so If I had thought about it for a minute, I would have avoided an easy mistake. I made a mistake. I make mistakes all the time. You people never make mistakes. You're always right, and you possess the self-assuredness without evidence or experience which only comes from having no contact with the real-world consequences of your down-is-up belief system.

Did you see me make any grandiose declarations? No...I asked a question, which is very unlike what your lot does. Unlike you, I don't assume I know everything; in fact my entire side possesses the humility to say to ourselves that regrettably, we cannot fix every single problem known to man by applying other people's money to a soulless and inefficient government program.