Originally posted by NemesioIn all your posts you haven't demonstrated that you understand what communication is. Isn't it something like the transfer of information from a sender to a receiver, using a jointly agreed mechanism (protocol, if you will)?
Originally posted by ivangrice
[b]Let me be very clear - people who mis-spell demonstrate either that they do not read, or that they cannot remember simple things. Both are contra-indicators of intelligence.
This is not true. Are you saying illiterate people are unintelligent?
The state of being illiterate only signifies a lack of access to ...[text shortened]... spelling ability
are closely linked, perhaps you would like to back up your claim.
Nemesio[/b]
Now imagine people are raised in an environment where:
1. They want to send and receive information.
2. Training in the dominant written communication protocol (let's call it the English language) is freely available.
3. They can practise this communication protocol to their hearts' content.
Divergence from the protocol would either mean:
1. They do not want to communicate effectively.
2. They are not able to effectively learn the protocol.
3. They have not practised enough i.e. they do not possess the drive to encounter new thoughts and ideas through reading.
All I am saying is that *generally speaking*, people who conform to the spelling rules will be more intelligent than those who don't.
The fact that people continue to make spelling mistakes means that they either see the words spelled correctly elsewhere and do not make the connection that their spelling is wrong, or they simply do not read enough to see the words spelled correctly. The former indicates a lack of intellect (where an indicator of intellect is the ability to see the relationship between things), and the latter indicates a lack of intellect, too (where an indicator of intellect is the desire to seek out new thoughts and ideas).
Some people suffer from dyslexia, which I am willing to concede is a special case. But only a minority of the population suffer from this condition.
It makes uncomfortable reading for some, I know.
Originally posted by NemesioRight. Mainly because you've made me think about it.
Naturally. This is the point I made above.
I am interested in 'communication.' Spelling properly and
using reasonable grammar aids in communication and, as such
has value to me. However, if I can understand a person who
spell ...[text shortened]... low intelligence, just poor verbal ability,
right?
Nemesio
Also because I am currently watching a BBC series called "The Story of English", and one of the episodes had a great deal to say about the period when spelling became much more standardised (around the late 1400s I think, but I could be wrong). It was because the variations across England were making communication too difficult. Some highly intelligent people had difficulty writing to each other!
Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by ivangrice
[b]Correct spelling is important because it demonstrates that the writer has read and remembered how the words are spelled. People who mis-spell either haven't read or can't remember how words are spelled.
Translation: Correct spelling is valuable because it it means the
writer can spell.
[/b]
Yes, would have to agree with Nemesio here. It is a circular argument.
"Why did you burn that woman?"
"Because she is a witch!"
"Why is she a witch?"
"Because we wouldn't be burning her if she wasn't!"
Originally posted by lauseyIf you believe it is a circular argument, then you haven't understood. I have clearly stated why I believe poor spelling is generally indicative of lower intellect. Please read my post previous to this.
Yes, would have to agree with Nemesio here. It is a circular argument.
"Why did you burn that woman?"
"Because she is a witch!"
"Why is she a witch?"
"Because we wouldn't be burning her if she wasn't!"
To aid you, I have pasted in the relevant paragraph:
The fact that people continue to make spelling mistakes means that they either see the words spelled correctly elsewhere and do not make the connection that their spelling is wrong, or they simply do not read enough to see the words spelled correctly. The former indicates a lack of intellect (where an indicator of intellect is the ability to see the relationship between things), and the latter indicates a lack of intellect, too (where an indicator of intellect is the desire to seek out new thoughts and ideas).
Now, please tell me where the circularity is.
Originally posted by ivangrice
If you believe it is a circular argument, then you haven't understood. I have clearly stated why I believe poor spelling is generally indicative of lower intellect. Please read my post previous to this.
Your original claim was circular:
Correct spelling is important because it demonstrates that the writer has read and remembered how the words are spelled. People who mis-spell either haven't read or can't remember how words are spelled.
In it, you fail to express why it is important that a writer should
remember how words are spelled. You simply say, if a person spells
poorly, then that person can't remember how words are spelled. This
conveys no information.
You have amended your statement by saying people who spell poorly
generally have lower intellects.
Regarding your reasoning:
1. They do not want to communicate effectively.
2. They are not able to effectively learn the protocol.
3. They have not practised enough i.e. they do not possess the drive to encounter new thoughts and ideas through reading.
#1 does not indicate a lack of intelligence at all, just a lack of desire
to communicate effectively.
#3 does not indicate a lack of intelligence, merely a lack of exposure.
If a person does not read much, for whatever reason, it doesn't reflect
on their cognative ability at all.
#2 does not necessarily indicate a lack of intelligence, merely a lack of
verbal ability.
So, it seems that you are saying this:
A person who does not strive to spell well necessarily demonstrates a lack
of necessary drive or capacity to learn the language well enough to communicate
effectively. This 'lack of capacity or drive' constitutes a lack of intelligence.
I do not agree with this, and neither is this claim supported by literature.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NostalJimWell done, rec for you đŸ™‚
Hint for the Firefox users: the Spellbound extension (http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/index) allows you to right click on any web form and run what you have written through its spell checker. I use it with every post I make.
Hint for the Internet Explorer users: Get Firefox! (www.getfirefox.com)
Originally posted by NostalJimTesting. Colour. Rightly-Honourable. Works for me.
Hint for the Firefox users: the Spellbound extension (http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/index) allows you to right click on any web form and run what you have written through its spell checker. I use it with every post I make.
Hint for the Internet Explorer users: Get Firefox! (www.getfirefox.com)