@Soothfast saidI have long since given up arguing with people here about the definition of "socialism." It's pointless to argue with the clueless.
I assure you I do not lie. Why should I? I have no real stake in this forum. It is a real abuse of the word—and here we are talking about a word even a 5-year-old knows the meaning of. You debate in extremely bad faith, and your poisonous rancor reflects quite badly on you.
Where I'm coming from makes a less formal distinction between democratic socialism and social demo ...[text shortened]... ear by the right-wingers here is the reason I only visit for short stints every few weeks or months.
@moonbus saidThe clueless one around here is you. You are on record here on this site proclaiming that the Scandinavian states are socialist. What you have done there is to take highly successful capitalist countries and call them socialist because of their high welfare element. Welfare is not socialist. Go educate yourself.
I have long since given up arguing with people here about the definition of "socialism." It's pointless to argue with the clueless.
1 edit
@Soothfast saidSo the DSA wants to put an end to capitalism and institute full-blown socialism [in the long run], and to acheive this end, they resort to lying and deceit, by proclaiming the virtues of the Nordic countries as models, showcasing the success of socialism, or democratic socialism.No organisation can be defined by their means, methods or policies. What is critical and far more telling is the end result, or final product that they are after.
This is so absurd on its face that I think there's no going forward from here. If this is what you really think, then it's no wonder you are utterly incapable of making sense of anything I've been saying today. Both means AND ends matter!
Had you, moonbus and others selected countries more in line with your end result, there would be no argument. Choose instead Venezuela and Cuba. But you cannot do that, because these real-life socialist countries have failed miserably, people have suffered, dissenters have been killed by the hundreds of thousands, millions fled to nearly capitalist states, and the rest live in poverty.
That is the real socialism which DSA is after. Tell people the truth. But socialists are liars and deceivers. In all cases, they have lied and deceived the electorate to enter into power, or use military means. This is what you are promoting .. lies and deceit. Mamdani .. a good recent example. Castro, liar. Chavez and Maduro - liars. All of them ... no truth will lead to socialism. You need to fool the gullible idiots to win their votes.
Tell the truth now. Have you ever seen or visited one of these failed countries? I have been to Cuba and Venezuela several times, and if you speak to the people you get the truth about life in those systems. Maybe if you travelled a bit more you would be hesitant to promote such abject failure.
@Soothfast saidThis is a really good post. Thumbs up!
Most of this is really irrelevant to my original point, and I assume you're just deflecting now, in hopes that your truly black-and-white characterizations of "leftists" will assume the illusion of going unchallenged. Here's your post:
[quote]They are leftists. They lean toward communism and socialism. They support these systems but never actually want to live in one. They ...[text shortened]... ght become the next prime minister or whatever. Yes, I think I should care much less what you think.
@Rajk999 saidIf the most liberal of all liberals in a government want what Scandinavia has (free health care, free education, big safety net for families/children), and you are saying it isn't socialism, why can't other countries try to implement similar policies without everyone calling it socialism?
You are mixing up stuff, outright lying, and using the wrong expressions ...
- lots of welfare does not mean socialism - (mixed up and confused)
- Democratic socialism not a correct expression for Scandinavia - (wrong)
- A push for welfare does not mean Nordic countries want socialism or democratic socialism. .. (outright lie)
If you have proof of any of these statem ...[text shortened]... , then the discussion becomes a bunch of pointless lies and misinformation. So you are on your own.
@wildgrass saidSocialism has a specific meaning. You dont get to change these definitons to suit your agenda. Google the meaning.
If the most liberal of all liberals in a government want what Scandinavia has (free health care, free education, big safety net for families/children), and you are saying it isn't socialism, why can't other countries try to implement similar policies without everyone calling it socialism?
@wildgrass saidOff topic, but ... just for the sake of pedantic completeness, nothing is ever free, except sunlight, and if Big Fossil could find a way to turn it off, they would.
If the most liberal of all liberals in a government want what Scandinavia has (free health care, free education, big safety net for families/children), and you are saying it isn't socialism, why can't other countries try to implement similar policies without everyone calling it socialism?
Health care, education, child care for working parents, "free at the point of consumption," coupled with universal access to said services, is the preferred formulation. It is paid for, one way or another.
'But what about illegal immigrants coming to steal our free education and free health care!?!'--yes, I hear the screeching of the fearful. This is a separate issue. Border control is nothing to do with socialism, however one defines "socialism."
- Joined
- 14 Mar 04
- Moves
- 210788
@AverageJoe1 saidIs it just me or is he (Trump) like a parent who chastises their child for doing something “naughty” saying, “ if you’re going to do that again I will…”. The child does and the parent says, “What did I tell you?” But doesn’t follow through. After a couple of those “threats” the child just say “Ya, OK” and continues to be naughty.
After he achieves successes over the next months, ...........you will say the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha. Funny, isn't it. Curious indeed. And it will be ALL of you. Except maybe suzianne, she will say, well, Joe, you were right, gotta give you credit, but more credit to Trump.
Hey, did he lie last week??? Said that without a deal in 48 hours, he would attac ...[text shortened]... changed his tack by saying, ok, , you have 5 days. I still think that the 48 hour lie was a. lie.
@Great-Big-Stees saidNo, Trump is the child. "If you don't do what I want, I'll break something!"
Is it just me or is he (Trump) like a parent who chastises their child for doing something “naughty” saying, “ if you’re going to do that again I will…”. The child does and the parent says, “What did I tell you?” But doesn’t follow through. After a couple of those “threats” the child just say “Ya, OK” and continues to be naughty.
@moonbus saidSo far some of the things getting broken :
No, Trump is the child. "If you don't do what I want, I'll break something!"
- Illegal aliens with criminal tendencies
- Muslims who are beheading and raping Christians and other nonbelievers
- Arabs who believe they have a right to threaten Israel and the USA with death, and pursue a nuclear weapons program at the same time
- UN who are blatantly self-righteous in their anti-semitism
- WHO who wasted billions of US grants on poor health programmes
- Drug runners in the Caribbean and Pacific bringing death to young people all over the world
...just a few off the top of my head. If you want a full list AI does a good job.
@Great-Big-Stees saidHa ha ha ha ha. You are hilarious! Obama and Biden both said ‘red line, don’t cross it’ and Biden’s classic.‘DON’T!”
Is it just me or is he (Trump) like a parent who chastises their child for doing something “naughty” saying, “ if you’re going to do that again I will…”. The child does and the parent says, “What did I tell you?” But doesn’t follow through. After a couple of those “threats” the child just say “Ya, OK” and continues to be naughty.
Both treated as wimps by everyone they got so tough about😆
Do you really think that Trump will not give holy hell to these people if he cannot with them in line pretty soon? He can’t wait! Seriously, you know, he always means what he says, and says what he means and does what he says.
Further, do you not think he is going to win this whole ball of wax …you need to get with it.