Originally posted by FMFThe suicide rate among military and ex-military is 17.5 per 100,000 vs 25.0 in the non-military population.
Last year more serving U.S. troops died as a result of suicide than were killed in combat in Afghanistan [and this does not include the alarming rate among veterans]. Why are so many soldiers - in increasing numbers - taking their own lives? What can be done to reduce the number?
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Originally posted by sasquatch672No Sasquatch- I'm not blaming the soldier for anything... as usual you're very wrong here. I'm blaming the idiots in power who lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in order to justify a needless invasion that sent over 4000 brave American soldiers to their deaths. Iraq was no threat to American security, and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Your simple minded way of thinking tells you whenever someone questions the need to go to war, it automatically means we don't "support the troops" WRONG! I can think of no better way of supporting our troops than making sure we don't send them into harms way unless it's absolutley necessary.....get it???😲😲😲
Maybe he's had so many anti-Republican things to say that I interpreted that post as blaming the soldier for going where he was ordered to go.
Originally posted by bill718What I get is that you're still blaming Bush. And ignoring all the harm that Obama's done. It's his second term now, and unemployment is right where it was when he took office. No more Bush. Time to talk about Obama's failures.
No Sasquatch- I'm not blaming the soldier for anything... as usual you're very wrong here. I'm blaming the idiots in power who lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in order to justify a needless invasion that sent over 4000 brave American soldiers to their deaths. Iraq was no threat to American security, and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. ...[text shortened]... e we don't send them into harms way unless it's absolutley necessary.....get it???😲😲😲
Originally posted by FMFFMF- Right you are! America needs to stop trying to be world policeman...we don't have the resources to do it. We need to work with other countries.
I think - with the comment about "trying to police the whole globe" - bill718 is addressing the stuff you said about length of the deployments, the very high operational tempos and the back to back deployments etc.
Originally posted by bill718Nobody claimed Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks, and Congress twice granted the President permission to use military force in Iraq.
No Sasquatch- I'm not blaming the soldier for anything... as usual you're very wrong here. I'm blaming the idiots in power who lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in order to justify a needless invasion that sent over 4000 brave American soldiers to their deaths. Iraq was no threat to American security, and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. ...[text shortened]... e we don't send them into harms way unless it's absolutley necessary.....get it???😲😲😲
Then when he did it, most of those on the left forgot their votes for the action.
Originally posted by sasquatch672OOPS...did I strike a nerve here? Now all of a sudden it's not about the troops anymore. Is it?? (I guess we're not supposed to talk about that!) Yes, I'm sure you believe Obama is the incarnation of every possible evil, but like it or not, the election is over, and the American people have spoken. Maybe it's time we both started working on our chess skills, since neither one of us is very good at it.🙂
What I get is that you're still blaming Bush. And ignoring all the harm that Obama's done. It's his second term now, and unemployment is right where it was when he took office. No more Bush. Time to talk about Obama's failures.
Originally posted by bill718No you didn't strike a nerve, I just think it's absurd to be talking about Bush when Obama is four years and a day into his reign of fear. This is Obama's economy, Obama's unemployment rate, Obama's gridlock, and Obama's campaign against business and success.
OOPS...did I strike a nerve here? Now all of a sudden it's not about the troops anymore. Is it?? (I guess we're not supposed to talk about that!) Yes, I'm sure you believe Obama is the incarnation of every possible evil, but like it or not, the election is over, and the American people have spoken. Maybe it's time we both started working on our chess skills, since neither one of us is very good at it.🙂
Originally posted by sasquatch672And Obama's military actions.
No you didn't strike a nerve, I just think it's absurd to be talking about Bush when Obama is four years and a day into his reign of fear. This is Obama's economy, Obama's unemployment rate, Obama's gridlock, and Obama's campaign against business and success.
Originally posted by normbenignI suppose it could be argued that Obama should take a portion of the blame. But how does that weigh against the contribution of U.S. military culture. Here's what U.S. Army Major General Dana Pittard [commander of Fort Bliss army base] had to say on his blog [according to a BBC report I heard]: "I am personally fed up with soldiers who are choosing to take their own lives so that others can clean up their mess. Be an adult. Act like an adult. Deal with your real life problems like the rest of us." Is this attitude perhaps a big part of the problem?
And Obama's military actions.
http://www.stripes.com/blogs/stripes-central/stripes-central-1.8040/general-s-suicide-commentary-provides-a-teachable-moment-1.178888
http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/general-s-blog-entry-reignites-army-suicide-debate-20120522
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/05/military-general-retracts-suicide-comments-052512w/
Can the U.S. military ever hope to get to grips with the problem if attitudes like those of Maj. Gen. Pittard are prevalent?
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Originally posted by John OsmarHaving had a bit of a look, I find that the suicide rate among the non-military population of the U.S. is 12.0 per 100,000 [2009]
The suicide rate among military and ex-military is 17.5 per 100,000 vs 25.0 in the non-military population.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
And I also find that according to the sources used to write the wiki article about suicide in the U.S., there is a 2009 U.S. Army report that indicates military veterans have double the suicide rate of non-veterans, and more active-duty soldiers are dying from suicide than in combat in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Suicide rates are also higher among ex-professional athletes of violent sports than in the general population. It seems to me that it's inevitable that people who suffer intense physical and emotional trauma are going to be more likely to take their own lives. I don't know exactly what is an expected or acceptable multiplier of the normal rate is. But I would start with the premise that a suicide rate that is somewhat higher is to be expected.
Originally posted by normbenignBush implied the 9/11 connection multiple times even if he may have been careful enough to avoid an outright accusation. The rhetoric at the time made it easy for hawks with short attention spans to believe that Iraq was partially responsible for 9/11.
Nobody claimed Iraq had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks, and Congress twice granted the President permission to use military force in Iraq.
Then when he did it, most of those on the left forgot their votes for the action.
Still, your point that Democratic politicians were beating the drums against Iraq and had consistently accused Saddam of developing WMDs dating well back into the Clinton administration is absolutely accurate.
Originally posted by FMFThe point is not so absurd or heartless when you consider that the military is an accountability culture and that suicide is correctly viewed as the most selfish and irrevocable of acts. There's no honor in it, and he's right - there are an awful lot of times when that soldier is leaving behind a young wife and kids. Even the best educated military families are in a situation where officers' wives are often working transient jobs. The wife of a young enlisted soldier more often than not does not have a college degree and is not in a position to support a family. I for one don't comprehend the act, and there should certainly be more resources available, but ultimately, you just can't do it.
I suppose it could be argued that Obama should take a portion of the blame. But how does that weigh against the contribution of U.S. military culture. Here's what U.S. Army Major General Dana Pittard [commander of Fort Bliss army base] had to say on his blog [according to a BBC report I heard]: [b]"I am personally fed up with soldiers who are choosing to take th ...[text shortened]... to get to grips with the problem if attitudes like those of Maj. Gen. Pittard are prevalent?
Originally posted by sasquatch672Well as long as Major General Dana Pittard's sentiments prevail then nothing much is going to get done by the army to get to grips with the issue in the OP. I would have thought words such as his could even have a hand in causing a few extra suicides. That may well be why he retracted the comments and apologized
The point is not so absurd or heartless when you consider that the military is an accountability culture and that suicide is correctly viewed as the most selfish and irrevocable of acts. .