Sweden's Changing Course?

@kewpie said
Australia locked down early and hard and the results show it. As a country we have 4 deaths per million population which puts us around #132 on the Worldometers list. Reopening is going along just fine without problems.
There were 2 places where bad things have happened. The first was in Sydney when an infected cruise ship was allowed to offload passengers straight into the ...[text shortened]... st a family member because some thoughtless person chose to play the odds with other people's lives.

I agree with most of this post but people are forgetting that in order for you to get this virus YOU have to do something wrong, and with the exception of care facilities and other similar circumstances, do not blame others for what you do.
We have been told constantly, wash your hands, social distance, keep your hands away from your face, stay home where possible, we are still being told this, and with some exceptions, do this and you will not get it.
Do not blame others.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

fair go, that was not what you inferred and you know it.
Your quote: in your post
" Anders Tegnell says there was ‘potential for improvement "
Torunn quote:
"From what I understand, Sweden has not done enough to protect people."
I can not find a post in this thread that gives her opinion re lockdown though I suspect that she does agree with the no lockdown.
And where did you ask about swedes having doubts about lockdowns, I cannot see it in this thread.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

if "you" do what "you" have been asked to do, wash your hands social distance etc etc etc how can "you" get it. And I am aware that there will be exceptions. Not many.

@jimmac said
I agree with most of this post but people are forgetting that in order for you to get this virus YOU have to do something wrong, and with the exception of care facilities and other similar circumstances, do not blame others for what you do.
We have been told constantly, wash your hands, social distance, keep your hands away from your face, stay home where possible, we are s ...[text shortened]... l being told this, and with some exceptions, do this and you will not get it.
Do not blame others.

"In order to get this virus you have to do something wrong."

Not so. Someone has to do something wrong. Not necessarily you. Full-PPE doctors and nurses correctly following infection protocols in laboratory-standard environments can and do get infected. The person who picked that item off a supermarket shelf and then put it back is long gone by the time you pick that item up. Controls simply cannot guarantee to protect everyone 100%, only to reduce the risks. I believe most people are doing their best.
It's not a matter of blame for bad decisions, or of credit for good ones. I'm grateful that anyone is at least trying to make decisions at all.

@torunn said
@Duchess64

From what I understand, Sweden has not done enough to protect people (patients and staff) in care homes - that's where most people die of corona. Still, I don't know of any people - friends and acquaintances - who don't stand by Anders Tegnell's strategy.

This reminds me of something that I read when I was trying to figure out what, exactly, Sweden was doing.

Johan Strang provided this interesting - if not condemning - analysis:

Unquestioning self-confidence: Sweden is the only Nordic country, and one of the few countries in Europe, that has not closed its schools and introduced rigorous, legally enforced social distancing measures. It takes a lot of self-confidence in order to act differently than almost every other country. This is something that Sweden has to a greater extent than the other Nordic countries, which are more heavily characterised by the small state attitude, namely, that it is important to follow others. Identifying and explaining where this Swedish self-confidence comes from is one of the most difficult and exciting questions for philosophers and cultural historians interested in the Nordic countries. My own theory is that it is a question of temporality. Sometimes during the 20th century, the heyday of the Swedish model, an idea emerged that Sweden was one of the most modern countries in the world, and thus 'ahead' of other countries. So, if you, like Sweden, are at the forefront of human development, there is no point in comparing yourself with other less advanced societies. Instead, there is a willingness and a custom for solving every question independently.

Swedes do what they are told: In the other Nordic countries - perhaps especially in Denmark - Sweden has a reputation for being a paternalistic, prohibitive society, which appears not to be in keeping with the liberal attitude Sweden has had during the corona crisis. How does this add up? If you look more closely, it is arguably not so much prohibitions per se that the Danes make fun of, but how obediently the Swedes follow different recommendations. If Danish anecdotes are to be believed, when the Swedish public health authority (Folkhälsomyndigheten) recommends eating five slices of bread per day, then the Swedes eat five slices of bread per day. The stereotype is more that the Swedes naively trust that the state knows what is best for them. Incidentally, this is precisely the same logic that pervades Sweden’s handling of the covid-19 crisis; the Swedish authorities trust that the Swedes in general will follow the recommendations of the state epidemiologist to wash their hands and keep away from each other. There is no need to legally enforce social distancing measures. That said, in a broader comparative perspective, trust in authorities is high throughout the Nordic region (including Denmark), so there are certainly limitations to this explanation of Swedish exceptionality.

https://nordics.info/show/artikel/the-nordic-countries-react-differently-to-the-covid-19-crisis/

@kewpie said
"In order to get this virus you have to do something wrong."

Not so. Someone has to do something wrong. Not necessarily you. Full-PPE doctors and nurses correctly following infection protocols in laboratory-standard environments can and do get infected. The person who picked that item off a supermarket shelf and then put it back is long gone by the time you pick that it ...[text shortened]... , or of credit for good ones. I'm grateful that anyone is at least trying to make decisions at all.

look, again, for the most part I do agree, but the emphasis is on the " Not "necessarily" you. ".
I am over the fear, I am witnessing 1st hand lockdown pain on a number of fronts and I have no "fear" of getting it, like none.
I am cautious, I am not a " nothing to see here" fool, but at the end of the day "most" cases will be somewhat self inflicted. ( health care facilities excepted ).
Re the can on the shelf, if you wash your hands regularly and don't pick ya nose, ya don't get it. That's what I have been led to believe.
For fear of saying something out of line I would wonder how the health care workers do get it. That is not meant to be a flippant comment as I believe a good doctor ( indeed all in the health care sector.) is one of societies most valuable professions and the deaths there do sadden me.

@Duchess64
We in the US would only WISH we had the numbers of Sweden. 132,000 deaths and counting, closing in on 100,000 new cases a day. All because of a combination of corrupt leadership and obvious low IQ types totally believing in the corruption filled leadership in the WH and in those southern republican states.

Sick is what it is and history will not be kind to those cretins.
Sorry for this diversion.
It's just that the American system has put the whole world at risk and I feel personally sad about the continued crisis here that could have been so much better handled if only we had real leaders instead of the corruption passing for leadership now.

@sonhouse
Assuming we are not at special risk because of old age and sicknesses, living almost a normal life should be possible: following rules and recommendations as much as we can, keeping social distancing and avoid shopping and public transports as much as possible and especially during busy hours. I use hand sanitizer when out among people, and many shops keep it available for their customers. I don't visit friends and neighbours as they are mostly older than I, and I don't have visitors in my home.
I have a family and they need my help now and then, and I believe we have to find a way of living this way for many months to come.

@torunn said
@sonhouse
Assuming we are not at special risk because of old age and sicknesses, living almost a normal life should be possible which is: following rules and recommendations as much as we can, keeping social distancing and avoid shopping and public transports as much as possible and especially during busy hours. I use hand sanitizer when out among people, and many shops keep ...[text shortened]... y help now and then, and I believe we have to find a way of living this way for many months to come.

That sounds curiously similar to what the people where I live appear to be doing when they are out and about. There appears to be a bigger difference between what is officially going on, than what is actually going on in settings other than the work place.

I run a volunteer beach cleaning group. That requires public indemnity insurance since we are putting on public events. Insurance companies say that at present an event should involve no more than six people (we used to get 30-50). As evidenced by the rubbish on our local beaches people are going to the beaches in far bigger groups than six so presumably our plans are too risky because our volunteers wish to get some work done on the beach as opposed to just socialising?!?

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Didn't China do that as well, by like 50%?

I just read an article the other day linking DNA from SARS-CoV-2 to the DNA
of Neanderthal. Maybe... just maybe, that explains why all of Asia has had
a much easier time coping with the virus, because Neanderthal DNA
is far more prevalent in Europe.

I know one thing, there is more to this discrepancy than meets the eye.

From the NYT:

"the coronavirus is blamed for 5,420 deaths in Sweden, according to the World Health Organization. That might not sound especially horrendous compared with the more than 129,000 Americans who have died. But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.

The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.


Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.

This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bank expects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.

In short, Sweden suffered a vastly higher death rate while failing to collect on the expected economic gains."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200708&instance_id=20110&nl=the-morning&regi_id=84100064&segment_id=32873&te=1&user_id=29d88cdc9425dc3b85bf0acd7302da24