With this talk of what separates right and left, I thought it would be interesting to look at the the 'new' conservative party under David Cameron and make some comparisons with their American equivalent (to an extent), the Republican party. This is the traditional right-wing (hence the name 'conservative'😉 party of the UK. They got thoroughly booted out of office in 1997 after 18 years in power by Tony Blair's 'New' Labour party and lost the next two general elections due to choosing ineffectual leaders, and of course the old adage that 'oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them'. Now after 10 years of Labour in power, the 'Tories' wiped the floor with them at the recent local elections in England, and a recent ICM opinion poll put the Tories at 42% and Labour at 29%. So what are these Tories all about? It seems to me to be winning at all costs, including ditching traditional party lines.
Here are a few stances that the new Tories are taking that differ with right-wing thinking:
1 - global warming. You only have to look at the US Republican party to see what right-wingers think. The stance is very much 'it aint our fault'. However the Tory party see the majority of the UK don't think this way, so have jumped on the green bandwagon, decrying excessive carbon emissions. Have a look at their website: http://www.conservatives.com - 'Vote Blue, Go Green' is the slogan.
2 - national health service. US right-wing stance is for private health care. Not David Cameron - 'the NHS is one of the 20th century's greatest achievements': http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5403798.stm
3 - crime. US right-wing stance: punishment. David Cameron: understanding: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6582423.stm
4 - education. I'm not sure what the GOPs line is on grammar schools but the Tories have gone against their traditional lines of supporting them, and now wish to reject them:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6658613.stm
It's been suggested that the Conservative party has been 'hijacked' by David Cameron and his mates from Eton (George Osborn, Boris Johnson). They claim to be in touch with the ordinary man, yet Cameron went to Eton, Oxford, and was born and now married into filthy rich families. On wind power generators, Cameron claimed they were nothing more than giant bird-blenders a few years ago. Now he's putting one on his roof (though not in the right place apparently - incompetence?): http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=444275&in_page_id=1770
There is a very real possibility that, if Gordon Brown stuffs up the next couple years, Cameron could get in to power. Would you trust someone who makes such changes to traditional lines? Would an American republican vote for this party?
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeDavid Chameleon is not trustworthy. It is easy to talk green. Slogan's as opposed to policies are what the new Tories are all about.
With this talk of what separates right and left, I thought it would be interesting to look at the the 'new' conservative party under David Cameron and make some comparisons with their American equivalent (to an extent), the Republican party. This is the traditional right-wing (hence the name 'conservative'😉 party of the UK. They got thoroughly booted out ...[text shortened]... to traditional lines? Would an American republican vote for this party?
The new Tories are trying to ape Blair (moving towards the centre) to win mythical middle England. I'm nervous that this flattery will charm Daily Mail readers. But realistically they cannot win the next election - even with 42% of the vote.
You can't blame them for trying to disassociate themselves from Right Wing Republicans. GWB is even less popular here than in the US.
Originally posted by invigorateAren't Daily Mail readers traditionally conservative anyway? What I want to know is, what do traditional conservatives think about the new Tory party? Do they agree that changing their party line is absolutely necessary to get back in? Or are they now thinking of switching their vote to another right-wing party (UKIP, BNP, etc.)? Or would they still grudgingly vote Tory?
David Chameleon is not trustworthy. It is easy to talk green. Slogan's as opposed to policies are what the new Tories are all about.
The new Tories are trying to ape Blair (moving towards the centre) to win mythical middle England. I'm nervous that this flattery will charm Daily Mail readers. But realistically they cannot win the next election - even w ...[text shortened]... sociate themselves from Right Wing Republicans. GWB is even less popular here than in the US.
Are there any Tories here?
Also I'm curious about what the American republicans here think of their counterpart's current status in the UK - what would you do?
Philosophically British conservatives tend to be more pessimistic and Spenglerian than their American counterparts. One difference which might have a part to play in future relations between Britain and the US is that British conservatives are often Little Englanders (remember Douglas Hurd and John Major whistling as if nothing was happening as the Balkans fell apart?) who have no interest whatsoever in humanitarian interventionism.
I'm not so sure Cameron is a shoe-in to win any moreL Cameron is a southern phenomenon, and George Osborne is a serious liability. Even the Daily Mail shows Brown's personal ratings are shooting up now - and the electoral system currently favours Labour.
I have a feeling Cameron is just copy catting Blair.
Young, change, but keeping the same values (yeah...).
In the end Tony Blair was a conservative who changed the Labour party into the Tory party, leaving the tories nowhere to turn to.
It´s their own fault though, they could have had Hesseltine or Clarke leading them, but the right (Thatcher and her cronies) made sure the moderate side would never get into power, after they stabbed her like Brutus on crack.
The tories will not win the next election. Gordon Brown will ease the troops out of Iraq and the British economy will carry on flourishing as the sweatshop of Western Europe and people will think he´s not that bad after all.
Originally posted by shavixmirBrown is Blair without the charisma. People have very little confidence in him right now and that's unlikely to change. Even if he takes the troops out of Iraq (which I doubt) he might stand a chance, but he's getting a bit of a heckling of the US to stay there even before he's Prime Minister. We'll see what he says after he's visited the place.
I have a feeling Cameron is just copy catting Blair.
Young, change, but keeping the same values (yeah...).
In the end Tony Blair was a conservative who changed the Labour party into the Tory party, leaving the tories nowhere to turn to.
It´s their own fault though, they could have had Hesseltine or Clarke leading them, but the right (Thatcher and h ...[text shortened]... lourishing as the sweatshop of Western Europe and people will think he´s not that bad after all.
I've got the feeling that people will remember the first thing he did as treasurer was raid the pensions fund. He's also sticking with the very unpopular ID cards.
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeDon't you believe a word of it...once they get in power, the Tories will back track on everything they say now and continue the dismantling of the NHS, throwing the environment to the dogs of their business friends, etc, etc.
With this talk of what separates right and left, I thought it would be interesting to look at the the 'new' conservative party under David Cameron and make some comparisons with their American equivalent (to an extent), the Republican party. This is the traditional right-wing (hence the name 'conservative'😉 party of the UK. They got thoroughly booted out to traditional lines? Would an American republican vote for this party?
Originally posted by howardgeeThey may be unpopular but they're not stupid. If the tories even tried that they know themselves that they wouldn't bet back into power for a long, long time. I don't see why we're not going to see another bunch of problems getting solved followed by a load of new ones getting made, just like the times before. Cameron knows that if he doesn't deliver he's out, and the tories know that if they try anything sinister no-one will ever trust them again.
Don't you believe a word of it...once they get in power, the Tories will back track on everything they say now and continue the dismantling of the NHS, throwing the environment to the dogs of their business friends, etc, etc.
Originally posted by mrstabbyA week is a long time in politics. Fifteen years is even longer. People generally have a memory span of about three days which is why politicians get away with the same, tired old rubbish time after time after time.
if they try anything sinister no-one will ever trust them again.
We shouldn't flatter ourselves into thinking we know what we do when we vote.
Originally posted by WheelyHow many people do you know that hate the Tories for the last time they were in power? People aren't going to forget Blair lying about Iraq etc in any hurry, just as they won't forget poll tax etc. Then again they've probably forgotten what the strikes were like, but that wasn't an individual saying "up yours" to half the country, which people are more likely to remember.
A week is a long time in politics. Fifteen years is even longer. People generally have a memory span of about three days which is why politicians get away with the same, tired old rubbish time after time after time.
We shouldn't flatter ourselves into thinking we know what we do when we vote.
The tories might be making gains in the south of England, but they're making pretty much no progress in the North of England, Wales or Scotland.
All this means is that they'll take a few seats from labour, and a lot more from the Libdums.
They've no chance at the next UK election, IMO.
Interestingly, it would suit the cause of Scottish independence if they did get back in at Westminster. We remember them the last time - we'd be gone.
Originally posted by RedmikeWould that be the time they helped put the hurt on your commie buddies to the east?
The tories might be making gains in the south of England, but they're making pretty much no progress in the North of England, Wales or Scotland.
All this means is that they'll take a few seats from labour, and a lot more from the Libdums.
They've no chance at the next UK election, IMO.
Interestingly, it would suit the cause of Scottish independence if they did get back in at Westminster. We remember them the last time - we'd be gone.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Nice to see you man, Hope all is well.
Originally posted by MerkI don't think they were any more anti-soviet (or just pro-US) than a labour goverment would have been.
Would that be the time they helped put the hurt on your commie buddies to the east?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Nice to see you man, Hope all is well.
All is indeed well, if a bit busy. Cheers.