08 Mar 21
@no1marauder saidexactly what i am talking about.
(Shrug) Better Manchin than Moscow Mitch.
Bernie recognizes the substantial benefits of this legislation even as he fights for even more progressive legislation in the future. That's a responsible position for a public servant even if it doesn't satisfy fanatics.
Democrats:
"We are better than the other guys, vote for us, no we won't give you much either but at least we're not racist and some crumbs may be coming your way if you elect us"
"Bernie recognizes the substantial benefits of this legislation"
what are you talking about . That wasn't the issue. If the bill would have been 1 trillion instead of 1.9 there still would have been substantial benefits. Hell, if a bill would have been a check of 1000$ for 100.000 people there still would have been "substantial benefits" for those 100.000 at least.
The question isn't whether the bill would help people. It will. The question is whether the democrats could have gotten more if they fought for it, If they brought Manchin and his buddies in line. If they threatened him with reelection.
"That's a responsible position for a public servant even if it doesn't satisfy fanatics."
Wtf are you talking about. Fanatics? This is 15$ minimum wage (which should have been passed 10 years ago, now it's barely decent). Something the progressives have been fighting for what, 2 decades, something the democrats promised to fight for. They aren't asking for school prayer or whatever.
Yes, dismiss people that ask what you promised them as fanatics. Hope the republicans implode more by 2022 and thus help democrats keep those people as hostages. Hope that will be enough to retain the power you barely use.
08 Mar 21
@zahlanzi saidThe provisions in this bill provide substantial, immediate aid to those in need. It's amazing they got Manchin to move this far and on a short timetable; expanded unemployment benefits will run out on March 14th absent passage of this legislation.
exactly what i am talking about.
Democrats:
"We are better than the other guys, vote for us, no we won't give you much either but at least we're not racist and some crumbs may be coming your way if you elect us"
"Bernie recognizes the substantial benefits of this legislation"
what are you talking about . That wasn't the issue. If the bill would have been 1 trillion i ...[text shortened]... emocrats keep those people as hostages. Hope that will be enough to retain the power you barely use.
It's a major accomplishment as Bernie recognizes. Those belittling it based on their dream fantasies that something more could have been passed so quickly deserve the designation "fanatics". In truth, the $15 minimum wage bill would have provided no immediate benefit whatsoever as the increase was phased in and wouldn't even have started (at $9.50 an hour) until the end of this year.
08 Mar 21
1 edit
@vivify saidDemocratic voters twice had an option to pick Sanders over a more centrist Democrat for their Presidential candidate. They did not.
I applaud what Dems have done so far. The problem comes with Dems passing legislation that Big Business or wealthy corporate donors oppose. The $15 minimum wage is one such legislation, which would affect their profits; Dems are backing down.
Another example are the Democratic candidates who opposed single-payer healthcare. Establishment Dems like Buttigieg said that w ...[text shortened]... ing a slew of laws to benefit their donors. Dems should be just a zealous with progressive agendas.
Trump had few legislative achievements and his only major one - the massive tax cut - wasn't enacted until December of his 1st year in office. Biden and the Democratic Congress has dealt with the most important crisis facing the country within his first two months.
08 Mar 21
1 edit
@no1marauder saidPart of the blame lies with centrist Dems who painted Sanders as a radical, who then united against Sanders to back Biden.
Democratic voters twice had an option to pick Sanders over a more centrist Democrat for their Presidential candidate. They did not.
Trump had few legislative achievements and his only major one - the massive tax cut - wasn't enacted until December of his 1st year in office. Biden and the Democratic Congress has dealt with the most important crisis facing the country within his first two months.
Comparing anyone with Trump is a low bar, isn't it? Dealing with imminent threats to citizens is a basic function of government.
@vivify saidIf you want to "blame" anyone, it's Democratic voters.
Part of the blame lies with centrist Dems who painted Sanders as a radical, who then united against Sanders to back Biden.
[b]Trump had few legislative achievements and his only major one - the massive tax cut - wasn't enacted until December of his 1st year in office. Biden and the Democratic Congress has dealt with the most important crisis facing the country within his ...[text shortened]... is a low bar, isn't it? Dealing with Eminent threats to citizens is a basic function of government.
It was you who brought up Trump:
vivify: Republicans wasted no time giving the rich a 1.3 trillion dollar tax break and passing a slew of laws to benefit their donors.
Actually, Biden and the Democrats have acted far more quickly and substantively as far as legislation than Trump and the Republicans did.
08 Mar 21
From the Congressional Progressive Caucus:
"The American Rescue Plan is a bold package that delivers on its promise to put money directly in people’s pockets & decisively crush the pandemic. Unlike the response to the Great Recession, this $1.9 trillion bill will deliver desperately needed aid and jumpstart our economy."
https://twitter.com/USProgressives/status/1368328100556193797
08 Mar 21
@no1marauder said" It's amazing they got Manchin to move this far and on a short timetable"
The provisions in this bill provide substantial, immediate aid to those in need. It's amazing they got Manchin to move this far and on a short timetable; expanded unemployment benefits will run out on March 14th absent passage of this legislation.
It's a major accomplishment as Bernie recognizes. Those belittling it based on their dream fantasies that something more co ...[text shortened]... increase was phased in and wouldn't even have started (at $9.50 an hour) until the end of this year.
Yeah, shocking. We should all sing praises to the democrat leadership for getting one of their own to do a decent thing and not fuk over the entire country.
Who set in stone the notion that Manchin needs to be convinced? On a minimum wage increase 20 years delayed. He needs to be bullied into accepting. He needs to feel there are consequences for not voting with the party.
This bill is tax redistribution. It was easy to give back some tax dollars the people have already paid. The minimum wage would have meant costs for the corporate donors who bought Manchin and others like him. THAT is why it didn't pass. Not because it was too short time
"In truth, the $15 minimum wage bill would have provided no immediate benefit whatsoever as the increase was phased in and wouldn't even have started (at $9.50 an hour) until the end of this year."
I freakin know that, stop being a condescending ass (like your usual self). It's a matter of setting an agenda, of presenting a unified front. Of setting the tone for the next 2 years, of showing young people and not just them that it's worth voting for democrats.
If they couldn't pass this now, what makes you think they will get Manchin to vote for it later? Or would it mean another set of concessions to get him to vote on a 10$ minimum wage, or , dare we dream , 12?
But by all means, i would love to be proven wrong. After this bill, when Manchin agrees to vote for a 15$ minimum wage as a solo bill 1 (or 2, or 6) month(s) from now, make a thread calling me out. I will gladly say i overreacted
08 Mar 21
@vivify said"Part of the blame lies with centrist Dems who painted Sanders as a radical, who then united against Sanders to back Biden. "
Part of the blame lies with centrist Dems who painted Sanders as a radical, who then united against Sanders to back Biden.
[b]Trump had few legislative achievements and his only major one - the massive tax cut - wasn't enacted until December of his 1st year in office. Biden and the Democratic Congress has dealt with the most important crisis facing the country within his ...[text shortened]... s a low bar, isn't it? Dealing with imminent threats to citizens is a basic function of government.
No point crying over spilled milk.
If Sanders would have been president who knows who would have been chair of the budget committee. Who knows who would have filled his seat in the senate. The situation would have been different but could also have been worse.
@zahlanzi saidSo you're criticizing passing something that will provide substantial immediate benefits because they also didn't pass something that wouldn't have?
" It's amazing they got Manchin to move this far and on a short timetable"
Yeah, shocking. We should all sing praises to the democrat leadership for getting one of their own to do a decent thing and not fuk over the entire country.
Who set in stone the notion that Manchin needs to be convinced? On a minimum wage increase 20 years delayed. He needs to be bullied into acc ...[text shortened]... bill 1 (or 2, or 6) month(s) from now, make a thread calling me out. I will gladly say i overreacted
Like I said, "fanatic".
Manchin needed to be convinced because without him the bill wouldn't have passed. Say what you will about him, but he provided the decisive vote. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making him "feel consequences" but lose his vote and the Democrats pass nothing.
For some fairly minor concessions they kept Manchin as part of the Democratic team; in fact, he even started musing about filibuster reform on Sunday. That's smart politics.
08 Mar 21
@Duchess64
I think the North Irish voted against leaving the UK and there is not much you can do about that.