08 Mar 21
Even under Sanders' bill, the federal minimum wage wouldn't have exceeded $11 hour until 2023:
" Under Sen. Sanders' amendment, the federal minimum wage would have jumped to $9.50 per hour starting a few months after the bill is enacted. The rate would have then gone up to $11 per hour in 2022, $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 per hour in 2024, and $15 per hour in 2025. "
https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/careers/salaries/602376/vote-to-reinsert-15-minimum-wage-in-stimulus-bill-fails
08 Mar 21
@no1marauder said"So you're criticizing passing something that will provide substantial immediate benefits because they also didn't pass something that wouldn't have?"
So you're criticizing passing something that will provide substantial immediate benefits because they also didn't pass something that wouldn't have?
Like I said, "fanatic".
Manchin needed to be convinced because without him the bill wouldn't have passed. Say what you will about him, but he provided the decisive vote. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making him ...[text shortened]... atic team; in fact, he even started musing about filibuster reform on Sunday. That's smart politics.
Because of your idiotic filibuster, passing the minimum wage now, when only 50 votes were required was necessary. Because there could have been significant leverage in getting democrats on board if enough pressure was applied. They (those 8 corrupt senators) would have had to explain to the american people how come they voted against a minimum wage increase (which a majority of americans support) and the rest of the relief bill. Because republicans have been bundling measures THEY want for decades and when democrats can finally get what they (supposedly) want, they back off.
"Like I said, "fanatic"."
You keep saying that, I am not impressed.
"Manchin needed to be convinced because without him the bill wouldn't have passed."
In other words he is holding a lit match next to a gas pump and you need to convince him not to blow everyone up. Since when does someone get praise for not doing a horrible thing? Funny how Sanders never had to be convinced to pass a bill that would help people.
"Say what you will about him, but he provided the decisive vote."
And we should reward him for it. Oh wait, they already did. Maybe we should also reward the other 49 senators who did the right thing. Or they don't count because we only coddle asholes who hold a country hostage?
"I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making him "feel consequences" but lose his vote and the Democrats pass nothing."
How about stop giving him any financial aid and actively support a counter candidate when he runs for reelection. Or I don't know, maybe ask Mitch if you (democrats) are too incompetent to apply pressure to party members.
"For some fairly minor concessions they kept Manchin as part of the Democratic team; "
Awesome win. They didn't lose a democrat vote on a bill the democrats were proposing.
"in fact, he even started musing about filibuster reform on Sunday"
You CANNOT be this naive. He mused about minimum wage increase in the past too. What happened to that. All he said was "i want to make the filibuster painful to use" which means jack and most likely will require more concessions.
"That's smart politics."
No, that's signaling you're weak. That's allowing one man to set party agenda in contradiction to campaign promises Biden and the democrats made. Campaign promises that won them power this time, but if unkept will most likely spell disaster in the midterms.
08 Mar 21
@no1marauder saidSour grapes, huh. It's not that great of a bill, so who cares it didn't pass. Who cares Manchin got to dictate terms. Next time it will be different. Americans, wait until next time. The democratic MO clearly states things will get better later. Maybe. If they feel like it and the stars align.
Even under Sanders' bill, the federal minimum wage wouldn't have exceeded $11 hour until 2023:
" Under Sen. Sanders' amendment, the federal minimum wage would have jumped to $9.50 per hour starting a few months after the bill is enacted. The rate would have then gone up to $11 per hour in 2022, $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 per hour in 2024, and $15 per hour in 2025. " ...[text shortened]... com/personal-finance/careers/salaries/602376/vote-to-reinsert-15-minimum-wage-in-stimulus-bill-fails
The only problem is that usually, "next time" comes after some years of republican senate, with Mitch as majority leader.
08 Mar 21
2 edits
@no1marauder saidAbsolutely.
If you want to "blame" anyone, it's Democratic voters.
The establishment Dems still share responsibility for deliberately steering voters away from single-payer healthcare.
09 Mar 21
1 edit
@zahlanzi said"Incompetent" would have been engaging in a fruitless, fratricidal civil war rather than passing an immensely popular piece of legislation that addresses the economic damage of the mismanaged COVID response and provides substantial benefits to the poor and working class.
"So you're criticizing passing something that will provide substantial immediate benefits because they also didn't pass something that wouldn't have?"
Because of your idiotic filibuster, passing the minimum wage now, when only 50 votes were required was necessary. Because there could have been significant leverage in getting democrats on board if enough pressure was applied ...[text shortened]... omises that won them power this time, but if unkept will most likely spell disaster in the midterms.
Taking your advice would have been a political disaster for the Democrats and I'm glad they are not as foolish as you are.
The Democratic Party has little leverage against Manchin; a progressive ran a primary challenge against him and was soundly beaten by better than 2:1. The same progressive ran against the Republican Senator from West Virginia two years later and was again soundly beaten by better than 2:1. Manchin is the only hope of holding that seat for Democrats and threaten him enough and he could conceivably bolt the party and McConnell would be back in charge of the Senate. All that instead of some minor concessions is what you propose. Utter madness.
09 Mar 21
@no1marauder saidWell why didn't you say so in the first place. Nothing can be done. It's Joe Manchin's party. He calls the shots now. You govern at the pleasure of Joe.
"Incompetent" would have been engaging in a fruitless, fratricidal civil war rather than passing an immensely popular piece of legislation that addresses the economic damage of the mismanaged COVID response and provides substantial benefits to the poor and working class.
Taking your advice would have been a political disaster for the Democrats and I'm glad they are not ...[text shortened]... charge of the Senate. All that instead of some minor concessions is what you propose. Utter madness.
Maybe this could be the democrats new motto. Nothing can be done. Yesterday it was Mitch's fault. Now it's Joe.
09 Mar 21
@zahlanzi saidExcept something was done, something Bernie Sanders called "the most significant piece of legislation to benefit working families in the modern history of this country."
Well why didn't you say so in the first place. Nothing can be done. It's Joe Manchin's party. He calls the shots now. You govern at the pleasure of Joe.
Maybe this could be the democrats new motto. Nothing can be done. Yesterday it was Mitch's fault. Now it's Joe.
And Democrats have only been in control for six weeks.
09 Mar 21
@no1marauder saidNobody is disputing the benefits of this relief bill. It had to be passed and it will no doubt help people. Again, the perception is the democrats start their negotiations low and they give out too many concessions.
Except something was done, something Bernie Sanders called "the most significant piece of legislation to benefit working families in the modern history of this country."
And Democrats have only been in control for six weeks.
Fine, without sarcasm, I will let this go and wait. The democrats have 2 years to pass a minimum wage increase. I want to be surprised by the democrat leadership bringing everyone on board for a 15$ minimum wage and actually getting it passed.