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The pretty edifice hiding the ugly reality

The pretty edifice hiding the ugly reality

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Great testimony for single-payer health care: Can't handle a C-section, can't find any room at neonatal intensive care units, has to fly mothers in labor to small towns in the savage land of only half-governmentalized care just so they can bear children. -- Patrick McIlheran


care for calgary quads tops $200,000: http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=0e5d23d5-1582-414e-825d-6776fc9eca69&k=77696

http://blogs.jsonline.com/mcilheran/archive/2007/08/20/canadians-love-their-health-care-in-montana.aspx

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Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
Great testimony for single-payer health care: Can't handle a C-section, can't find any room at neonatal intensive care units, has to fly mothers in labor to small towns in the savage land of only half-governmentalized care just so they can bear children. -- Patrick McIlheran


care for calgary quads tops $200,000: http://www.canada.com/topics/ ...[text shortened]... ogs.jsonline.com/mcilheran/archive/2007/08/20/canadians-love-their-health-care-in-montana.aspx
Socialized medicine, guarantees for everyone...except the patient.

A socialized medicine city of 1 million doesn't have facilities of a non-socialized medicine city of 50,000.

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Once again, half truths.

Some massively expanding cities like Calgary are experiencing gigantic population increases because of the oil boom in the Tar Sands in Alberta.

There is a nursing shortage in Calgary at the moment because not enough have graduated from school yet, or transferred to Calgary, or moved from the US to Calgary. Once the nursing shortage is filled the issue will be resolved.

"""The health authority says the problem stems from a shortage of specially trained nurses. The authority is currently working to train more staff for the neonatal unit.""""


But regardless, this just shows that access to healthcare is not denied, it is just provided somewhere else. An American would have had to pay $200,000 for the service the family recevied but because they are Canadian they paid ZERO!

This happens all the time in the US too when people in remote communties have to travel hours to see the nearest specialist. You think it's so different just because you cross an imaginary line on a map?

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Your first links states that the price tag for having them cared for in the USA is more then $200 000 ($160 000 withouth the flight) compared to slightly more then $60 000 in Canada. I'd say that's a plus for their system.
Second point : the capacity in Canada seems to be too small, that is a fault of how the system is managed, not of the system.
Most importantly, the patient has recieved the best care possible under the circumstances, why are you saying that there "are no guaranties for the patients" ?

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You know 99.9% of all healthcare in canada is provided with no bumps in the road.

Yet you lot, pick one specific case out of the thousands of cases each day and say, "Oh look, the whole system is bad"

That'd be like me saying, "oh look, that black man in the US killed a policeman...Geez black men are bad"

or, "That white hick from Texas wears a white robe and hates black guys...geez, white guys must be racists"

You want to know whether the Canadian system works well or not? Ask a bunch of Canadians! While you'll no doubt find people that will complain, most of us will tell you it's great and wouldn't trade it for anything. We use it, have had to rely on it, and just because a family in Oiltown went to the US, it's not going to make us move to a user pay system.

And if you asked the family if they'd rather pay $200,000 to stay in Calgary, or go to the US for a few days and pay ZERO, I think the answer is obvious.

How many Americans would come to Canada if it meant they could get FREE healthcare whenever they needed it? I guarantee you it would be in the thousands, if not millions.

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Originally posted by uzless
[b]Once again, half truths.

Some massively expanding cities like Calgary are experiencing gigantic population increases because of the oil boom in the Tar Sands in Alberta.

There is a nursing shortage in Calgary at the moment
Lets calm down 😉
When I read the article, I read that after Calgary did not have capacity, the whole of Canada was looked to before the decision was made to go to Montana.

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Originally posted by Barts
[b]Second point : the capacity in Canada seems to be too small, that is a fault of how the system is managed, not of the system.
If one does not get treated because of lack of capacity, does it matter to him if it is system management or the system? Result identical in both cases.

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Originally posted by uzless
You know 99.9% of all healthcare in canada is provided with no bumps in the road.

Yet you lot, pick one specific case out of the thousands of cases each day and say, "Oh look, the whole system is bad"

That'd be like me saying, "oh look, that black man in the US killed a policeman...Geez black men are bad"

or, "That white hick from Texas wears a w ...[text shortened]... ever they needed it? I guarantee you it would be in the thousands, if not millions.
Universal health care is never FREE. People are put in queues, they wait interminably long periods to see a specialist (all the while suffering their pain), then they have treatment denied them or they are never given access to the latest, expensive lifesaving drugs. More importantly, Moreover, Canadians pay a good-sized chunk of their income for their "free" health care.

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Originally posted by uzless
You know 99.9% of all healthcare in canada is provided with no bumps in the road.

Yet you lot, pick one specific case out of the thousands of cases each day and say, "Oh look, the whole system is bad"

That'd be like me saying, "oh look, that black man in the US killed a policeman...Geez black men are bad"

or, "That white hick from Texas wears a w ever they needed it? I guarantee you it would be in the thousands, if not millions.
Boy who is telling the fibs now. First the flight preparations was estimated at 45,000 of your 200,000 you say it would cost an American. Also if you have health insurance it would cost about,3000 out of pocket. And we have the beds and the staff to help take care of our neighbors(CANADA).

More intresting material.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=11226

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How many Americans would come to Canada if it meant they could get FREE healthcare whenever they needed it? I guarantee you it would be in the thousands, if not millions.[/b]
Yes everyone would be migrating then, except it is NOT FREE.

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Originally posted by torch71
Boy who is telling the fibs now. First the flight preparations was estimated at 45,000 of your 200,000 you say it would cost an American. Also if you have health insurance it would cost about,3000 out of pocket. And we have the beds and the staff to help take care of our neighbors(CANADA).

More intresting material.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=11226
ncpa? ah yes, DSR's favourite site. I see he has some plebe's. FYI, ncpa get's their data from the Frasier Institute....a highly unreputable source of right wing propoganda in Canada

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Originally posted by torch71
[b Also if you have health insurance it would cost about,3000 out of pocket.
40 million Americans don't have health insurance so it would have cost them $200,000.

It cost each Canadian 6 cents to send the family there.

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Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
People are put in queues, they wait interminably long periods to see a specialist (all the while suffering their pain), then they have treatment denied them or they are never given access to the latest, expensive lifesaving drugs.
That's a good Clive Barker synopsis, but it doesn't represent the reality of any properly funded socialized health service. The only time that kind of characterization holds true is when right-wing parties secretly hostile to socialized medicine take over and try to run them into the ground. Luckily parties openly hostile to socialized medicine are quickly ejected by electorates - in Britain, Mrs Thatcher was always afraid of the popularity of the NHS and she tried wherever possible to neutralize the issue, but even her coded criticisms lost her votes that could have been key if the opposition had been less divided. Socialized health is popular in the countries it serves; no point trying to deny it.

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Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
Universal health care is never FREE. People are put in queues, they wait interminably long periods to see a specialist (all the while suffering their pain), then they have treatment denied them or they are never given access to the latest, expensive lifesaving drugs. More importantly, Moreover, Canadians pay a good-sized chunk of their income for their "free" health care.
Of course not. It's funded from tax money as we've explained about a dozen times and everyone knows when we say free we mean when you leave the hospital you don't have a bill to pay.


And AGAIN, you only wait between 10-30 days for most non-life threatening operations.

Medically necessary Treatment is NEVER DENIED. Period. Just a blatant lie there DSR. relying on your ncpa site again for misinformation?

Canadians are given access to all drugs approved by Health Canada. Just because the US approves a drug before Canada does, it doesn't mean it's being withheld...it means Health Canada wants to see more long term test results since we don't have a drug lobby industry pushing for quick approval so they can make a buck.

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Originally posted by MacSwain
If one does not get treated because of lack of capacity, does it matter to him if it is system management or the system? Result identical in both cases.
THEY DID GET TREATED!!! Is your issue just because it wasn't in their city?? Jebus, lots of people in the US have to travel far distances for treatment. It's not a big deal. Is it a border thing that has you confused?

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