13 Jan 06
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantly refutes what you tell him and insists that you dont have the authority, knowledge or wisdom to tell him what to do. Essentially he makes it clear that you should mind your own business.
Now clearly one response someone might have is to simply give up, this friend is obviously beyond redemption. However this friend has been there for you in the past, you owe him, moreover if he goes down he will more than likely pull your mutual friends, perhaps even yourself, down with him.
Should you persist in trying to persuade him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmYes and no.
Should you persist in trying to persuade him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
No, in the sense that you shouldn't be so much "in his face" since it will have no effect whatsoever. If he objects so strenuously it is probable that he is already unreceptive to anything you say about the subject, no matter how much sense you put in your words.
Yes, because you care, but keep a lower key about regarding the previous reasons.
I have a similar problem and the person himself has an incredible stubborn personality. My direct approach in the beginning had no results whatsoever, but now I'm making him think a little more about it...
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by PalynkaI commend you on a very rational approach 🙂
Yes and no.
No, in the sense that you shouldn't be so much "in his face" since it will have no effect whatsoever. If he objects so strenuously it is probable that he is already unreceptive to anything you say about the subject, no matter how much sense you put in your words.
Yes, because you care, but keep a lower key about regarding the previous reaso ...[text shortened]... beginning had no results whatsoever, but now I'm making him think a little more about it...
Intrestingly it brings up a point I wanted to raise later, how do you deal with someone who is too much "in your face"? From either the perspective of the friend or the person making the mistake.
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmI don't know. I felt I should back off, so I did. He still does it and I'm not sure I'll get results or if he'll end up in prison before that. All I know is that my first approach was just making him even more determined.
I commend you on a very rational approach 🙂
Intrestingly it brings up a point I wanted to raise later, how do you deal with someone who is too much "in your face"? From either the perspective of the friend or the person making the mistake.
MÅ¥HÅRM
I used sarcastic comments and irony to make him look bad. It seems to have some effect since I'm not "preaching" on him... 🙂 But knowing his personality preaching would never be the answer.
Anyway, good luck with your friend.
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmThe most important thing is to be there for the friend. In The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People Covey writes about an "emotional bank account". You need to have a very high "balance" in the "account" to be able to influence someone who is resistant to being influenced. So, you should clearly tell the person what you think once, and then start putting in extra effort to build up the "balance". That's my style anyway - I am a soft sell kind of person. Of course, you could get a bunch of friends and family to do an intervention if you want to be more of a hard-sell kind of person.
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmIf someone's in my face, I tell them clearly that my life is my life and that their pushiness is not welcome. I would take it very seriously; I resent tremendously people who try to control me through bullying, even if they think it's for my own good.
I commend you on a very rational approach 🙂
Intrestingly it brings up a point I wanted to raise later, how do you deal with someone who is too much "in your face"? From either the perspective of the friend or the person making the mistake.
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmI expect that all of us live our lives on both sides of this issue. I will not tolerate other people directly trying to change me and I do not directly try to change other people. When I decide someone is a friend then they are a friend forever, no matter what they do, no matter even if they do not consider me a friend. But I will not try to change them. If they ask for advice I'll give them my opinion. I also let them know clearly that I'll help them in any way I can, at any time, under any circumstances. But if they feel my help will be beneficial then they have to ask for it. And hopefully if I ever ask them for help such help will be forthcoming from them. But reciprocity is not a condition of friendship. For me, friendship is unconditional. Nobody gets in anyone else's face. Nobody tries to change anybody.
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmDiscuss his reasons for taking the self-destructive path. Do it in a calm manner, and never judge him while discussing it with him.
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
People don't like being judged. People like to talk, but in this day and age, opening up to people (anybody) can be really difficult if his state of mind isn't great.
D
13 Jan 06
Originally posted by MayharmThis is a very difficult subject to handle.
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
Basically, what anyone does is anyone's choice. One being quite as justifiable as another. One man's poison is another man's food, and all that.
You think murder is wrong, but a soldier murders because you've voted for a government which sends him out to do that. So crime is only crime...from a certain point of view. I really believe Star Wars (and Revenge of the Sith in particular) makes this point quite well.
So, attempting to convince someone that his motives, etc. are wrong, when he doesn't want to change isn't going to work.
This leaves three options:
- Leave him
- Trying to support him anyways
- Removing him from the influence and basically de-programming him.
The first is the route most choose. It's easiest. Sometimes there can be no choice about it. I have a friend of a friend who's slipped into what I believe is the Dark Side of humanity. He's become a member of the fascist party in Rotterdam. I told him my feelings on the subject, but he remains convinced that the best way of solving the problem he sees is by expelling anyone who doesn't speak Dutch. And I have now disregarded him like one does used toilet paper.
The second route is probably the hardest. This means you accept that what's right and wrong are just points of view and that you ignore that which you disagree with.
The only influence you have in this relationship is to try to objectify things both of you see and then discuss the different approaches with each other without judging each other.
Sometimes one will eventually fall into tune with the other.
The third is basically illegal. The only times I've heard of its use is when brainwashing has been identified and the subject has been enslaved. De-programming is also brainwashing!!
13 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Mayharm....shoot him.this will fix the problem and then find a new friend.
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
13 Jan 06
1 edit
It's much easier not to have any friends.
But if you persist on the notion, then I would say that you should make fun of the new "dangerous course" and see what your friend says. If the friend replys, then use humor as a bridge in communicating the danger you see. Don't beat about the bush. That only causes annoying doubts and debilitating questions of loyalty to enter the relationship.
If said friend can see no humor in making fun of the "danger" then it probably is dangerous. Cults are totally without humor.
14 Jan 06
If the friend has helped you in the past, and you try and help him, but he refuses, there is nothing you can do. Just make it clear to him that you disagree with whatever he is doing, and that if he ever needs help, you will always be there for him. Otherwise there is nothing that you can do. I don't believe that you should try to run the persons life because that is just it, it is there life and their decisions to make. There is also a chance that you are wrong about his actions, and if you take the smooth way out instead of trumpeting your abandonment, he will forgive you.
Just some thoughts
15 Jan 06
Originally posted by Mayharmdon't play chess....just be honest,love him and talk.tell him the situation as you see it and let him explain what's going on in his life as you obviously don't understand fully his situation...which could take a lot of time for you to understand...and vice-versa.you are lucky you can still talk...
Suppose you have a friend who is treading a dangerous path, say taking up crime or getting involved with a fanatical cult or even simply mistreating his friends, exactly what he is doing is irrelevant the point being you can clearly see he's making a grave mistake.
Naturally, as a friend, you try to explain to him he's making a mistake, but he persistantl ...[text shortened]... him against his course of action, despite his strenuous objections to you doing so?
MÅ¥HÅRM
a lot of people in N.Z. join the gangs because basically noone cares or they just don't feel anyone does.i do admire the gangs for doing this but never spend much time with them.