@shavixmir saidHere is an example of Canada, with nothing to hide, and how murder rates are presented for the world to see.
Uh… I posted a link to the answer to this yesterday.
Don’t force me out of hibernation before June.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510020601
Here is what your post says :
Their figures for last year show there were 23 white people killed in farm attacks, and nine black people. So far this year TAU has recorded three white people and four black people killed on South African farms.
Lame and deceitful. They think the world is stupid and gullible.
@congruent saidThis is a red flag. All countries collect data on murders, by race and/or nationality. The fact that they choose not to release it should tell you something if you are perceptive .. I guess not.
However, the South African Police Service (SAPS) does not release crime statistics disaggregated by race, making it challenging to determine the exact number of white victims.([Wikipedia][2])
The rest of your post is repetitive and irrelevant
@Cliff-Mashburn saidI would like to hear him answer that.
Since SA doesn't release murder statistics by race...... please tell us how you can make that claim?
Why do people make these claims when no data is available.
Why not just truthfully say .."I do not know"
2 edits
@Cliff-Mashburn saidThe numbers Trump mentions are not evidence-based, and his claim of genocide has no basis in either fact or international law. His intent was evidently simply to ambush the SA head of state, as he did with Zelenski previously; It's Trump's chief 'negotiating' tactic, namely, to discomfit his interlocutor and put him on the back foot with lies and false accusations.
Been going on for many years, ever since the blacks took over.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8810807/Boer-Lives-Matter-farmers-storm-South-African-court-holding-two-men-accused-murdering-farmer.html
Extended quote from the above source:
In response to our email seeking evidence for Trump’s statements, the White House provided no data. A spokesperson said Afrikaners told U.S. officials about violent attacks, death threats, vandalism and racial slurs against farmers. [in other words, Trump's claim is based on hearsay.]
.... the primary motive for almost all farm attacks is robbery, which has long been documented.
“Attacks where there may be evidence of racial or political motives (i.e. slogans written on the wall at a scene of a crime, or words spoken by the attacker according to the victim), are exceedingly rare and make up only a few percent of the cases recorded,” Newham said.
The majority of murder victims nationwide are poor, under- or unemployed young Black males, Newham said.
“Murder victimisation is far more correlated to class, gender and location than race,” Newham said. About half of murders take place in about 12% of the precincts, “primarily townships or poor areas in metropolitan cities mostly populated by black African people.”
The South African Police Service’s crime report for the period from April 1, 2022, to March 31, 2023, shows there were 51 murders on farms of a total of 27,494 murders nationwide. But the data has limitations.
The race of farm murder victims is not consistently recorded in official data, said Anthony Kaziboni, a senior researcher at the University of Johannesburg’s Centre for Social Development in Africa.
While anecdotal evidence suggests many victims are white, other victims are Black or nonwhite, Kaziboni said. “Media reports sometimes mention race, but these are sporadic and not methodologically robust enough to support claims of systemic racial targeting.” [In other words, not all of the farmers killed where White, so fewer than 51 per year.]
Nechama Brodie, a journalist who wrote a book on farm murders and has fact-checked the topic, told PolitiFact that the South African Police Services has not always been effective at creating a farm murder count. One challenge is deciding who is counted as a farmer because there are commercial farms and “smallholdings,” which can simply be plots of land.
Educate your inbox
Brodie said AfriForum, a nongovernmental organization focused on Afrikaners, is one of the more reliable sources of information about killings of white Afrikaans-speaking farmers. AfriForum data, which is based on information from police, private security services, victims and media reports, showed about 50 farm murders a year.[caveat: not all were White.]
Brodie said that a white farm owner’s death is more likely to be covered in the news than the killing of a rural smallholder. The majority of the country’s smallholders and rural residents are Black.
“South African media coverage of murder victims is extremely selective, and creates a false depiction of who is most at risk,” Brodie said.
There is no evidence that South Africa has sponsored or organized killings to destroy a group.
We asked the State Department for evidence of a genocide of white farmers in South Africa, and a spokesperson said the department had nothing to announce regarding a genocide determination.
The official definition of genocide, written in 1948 following negotiations led by the United Nations, is killing, causing bodily harm, preventing births, or forcing the transferral of children “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”
The definition includes no guidance on absolute numbers or percentages required to qualify as genocide.
There are many arguments about the definition of genocide, said Richard Breitman, an American University distinguished professor emeritus and author of books about the Holocaust.
“But many specialists regard the intent to destroy an entire ethnic, religious, or national group as essential,” Breitman said. “It is not strictly a matter of numbers of victims, but of an organized effort, usually by a government or a political organization, to target a large percentage of a defined enemy group.”
Experts rejected the “genocide” characterization of Afrikaners.
“There is no indication of a state-sponsored campaign or intent to eliminate a specific racial group,” Kaziboni said. “The primary motive remains robbery, sometimes coupled with extreme violence, consistent with broader patterns of violent crime in South Africa.”
The term genocide evokes the horrors of the Holocaust, which killed 6 million Jews, and the 1994 Rwandan genocide, where 800,000 Tutsis were systematically killed, Kaziboni said.
“Against this backdrop and the UN’s legal definition, labelling farm killings as genocide is both inaccurate and misleading,” Kaziboni said. “This does not diminish the severity of the violence or the need for enhanced rural safety, but it highlights the importance of responding with evidence, nuance, and context.”
Jean-Yves Camus, co-director at the Observatory of Political Radicalism at the Foundation for European Progressive Studies, said the issue “needs to be seen in the broader context of a country plagued by crime and gang activity.”
@Rajk999 saidYou’re a racist cnut.
This is a red flag. All countries collect data on murders, by race and/or nationality. The fact that they choose not to release it should tell you something if you are perceptive .. I guess not.
The rest of your post is repetitive and irrelevant
Why the hell would any rational person listen to you?
There is no white genocide in South Africa.
End of.
1 edit
@shavixmir saidAnd the obscenities come out. Crawl back in your little hole.
You’re a racist cnut.
Why the hell would any rational person listen to you?
There is no white genocide in South Africa.
End of.
Notice I have never said anything about 'genocide'. I dont use that term loosely the way people use it with Israel/Gaza. I already said there is no genocide, but there are far more murders of white farmers than what politicians are admitting to.
- Joined
- 19 Aug 12
- Moves
- 4177
A lot of people talk about "genocide" but they don't actually know what it means. What happened in a true genocide (and the world just watched)?
The Rwandan Genocide was one of the most horrifying mass atrocities of the 20th century. Here's an overview:
🇷🇼 Rwandan Genocide (April – July 1994)
➤ What Happened:
Between 800,000 and 1 million people—primarily Tutsi, along with moderate Hutu and others—were systematically murdered over approximately 100 days in Rwanda.
➤ Perpetrators:
Hutu extremists, including members of the Interahamwe militia, the Rwandan government, and elements of the military.
The genocide was orchestrated by the then-Hutu-led government, which spread propaganda and organized civilian militias to carry out killings.
➤ Victims:
Mostly Tutsi, but also moderate Hutu who opposed the extremist regime or tried to protect Tutsi.
Entire families, communities, and generations were wiped out.
➤ Trigger:
On April 6, 1994, the Rwandan President Juvénal Habyarimana, a Hutu, was killed when his plane was shot down.
This event was used as a pretext by Hutu extremists to begin the mass extermination.
❗ Nature of the Violence:
Killings were carried out with machetes, clubs, and small arms.
Mass rape was used as a weapon of war.
Churches, schools, and hospitals where people sought refuge became massacre sites.
The genocide was highly organized, with roadblocks, death lists, and public radio broadcasts urging Hutus to kill Tutsi neighbors.
🌍 International Response:
The United Nations and Western powers were widely criticized for failing to intervene.
UN peacekeepers were present but had limited authority and were ordered not to engage.
The genocide ended when the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), a Tutsi-led rebel group under Paul Kagame, defeated the government forces in July 1994.
⚖️ Aftermath and Justice:
International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) was established in 1995 to prosecute the planners and perpetrators of the genocide.
Thousands were also tried in Gacaca courts—community courts established in Rwanda for local justice.
Rwanda has since undergone significant reconciliation efforts, though deep scars remain.
📚 Legacy:
The genocide is a pivotal case study in the study of mass violence, ethnic conflict, and international failure to prevent atrocity.
It led to changes in international law and doctrine, including the development of the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) principle.
@congruent
The photo Trump held up was not taken in South Africa, but Congo. Typical Trump, to present fake evidence in support of a false accusation.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/22/africa/south-africa-white-farmers-trump-congo-intl-latam
@congruent saidI think that was established already. ITS NOT GENOCIDE.
A lot of people talk about "genocide" but they don't actually know what it means. What happened in a true genocide (and the world just watched)?
The Rwandan Genocide was one of the most horrifying mass atrocities of the 20th century. Here's an overview:
🇷🇼 Rwandan Genocide (April – July 1994)
➤ What Happened:
Between 800,000 and 1 million people—primarily Tutsi, alo ...[text shortened]... tional law and doctrine, including the development of the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) principle.
Clearly you are tring to derail the topic by going off on a tangent.
Lets move on.
It can be called
- targeted racial killings.
- Raciallly motivated murders
What South Africa's politicians are practicing is
- hate speech
- incitement to commit murder of white farmers
The point is there are no solid data on murder of whites in South Africa.
This data is being kept secret, and the only reason is that there is something to hide.
@Cliff-Mashburn saidThe now-famous photo that trump showed in the white House was supposed to be proof that this was happening but was actually from the Congo.
A lot more than a thousand whites have been murdered in SA.
- Joined
- 09 Jan 22
- Moves
- 1139
@wildgrass saidThat doesn't change what's happening is SA or bring all the slaughtered white people back to life.
The now-famous photo that trump showed in the white House was supposed to be proof that this was happening but was actually from the Congo.
@Cliff-Mashburn saidNo, but it's telling they had to look outside of SA to find an example.
That doesn't change what's happening is SA or bring all the slaughtered white people back to life.
- Joined
- 19 Aug 12
- Moves
- 4177
@moonbus saidYes Trump had not done his homework.
@congruent
The photo Trump held up was not taken in South Africa, but Congo. Typical Trump, to present fake evidence in support of a false accusation.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/22/africa/south-africa-white-farmers-trump-congo-intl-latam
- 1,000 graves -FALSE
- Genocide -FALSE doesn't know definition of genocide
- Pictures of killings -FALSE from Congo
- Whites are targeted because of race -FALSE crime rate in SA very high and more blacks affected than whites.
Fact check: Trump’s false suggestion of a ‘genocide’ against White farmers in South Africa
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/21/politics/fact-check-white-farmers-south-africa-trump?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc
There is a lot of violent crime in South Africa. There is not a genocide against White farmers there.
Claims of genocide can sometimes be difficult to adjudicate. This claim is easy. The facts show that the genocide President Donald Trump suggests might be happening is not happening – and that crime against White farmers in South Africa represents a tiny fraction of the country’s overall crime.
The most recent South African official data shows that the country had 19,696 murders from April 2024 through December 2024 – and that the victim in just 36 of these murders, about 0.2%, was linked to farms or smaller agricultural holdings.
Further, only seven of the 36 victims were farmers. (South Africa has Black farmers, too; the official data is not broken down by race.) The other 29 victims included farm employees, who tend to be Black.
Data from groups representing South African farmers also shows that farm killings number in the dozens per year, a minuscule percentage of the country’s total.
@congruent saidTrump cannot not know that he is simply making this stuff up. It's all smoke and mirrors to distract from the real agenda going on scarcely noticed.
Yes Trump had not done his homework.
- 1,000 graves -FALSE
- Genocide -FALSE doesn't know definition of genocide
- Pictures of killings -FALSE from Congo
- Whites are targeted because of race -FALSE crime rate in SA very high and more blacks affected than whites.
Fact check: Trump’s false suggestion of a ‘genocide’ against White farmers in South Africa
https://e ...[text shortened]... ows that farm killings number in the dozens per year, a minuscule percentage of the country’s total.