@congruent saidNot only was the video about the Congo, but it was from 2020.
Yes Trump had not done his homework.
- 1,000 graves -FALSE
- Genocide -FALSE doesn't know definition of genocide
- Pictures of killings -FALSE from Congo
- Whites are targeted because of race -FALSE crime rate in SA very high and more blacks affected than whites.
Fact check: Trump’s false suggestion of a ‘genocide’ against White farmers in South Africa
https://e ...[text shortened]... ows that farm killings number in the dozens per year, a minuscule percentage of the country’s total.
@Rajk999 saidFunny how everyone suddenly doesn't mind sounding like @Metal-Brain with whack-a-doodle conspiracy theories just because Trump said something stupid one day. Weak-minded fools.
And the obscenities come out. Crawl back in your little hole.
Notice I have never said anything about 'genocide'. I dont use that term loosely the way people use it with Israel/Gaza. I already said there is no genocide, but there are far more murders of white farmers than what politicians are admitting to.
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@wildgrass saidAs a white guy who has lived in South Africa, who has traveled widely in SA numerous times, and who has talked to and had dinner with white farmers in SA over many years, I can tell you that stories of 'farm murders' are brought out after the brandy, like ghost stories. 'There was this couple...' But try to narrow down the specifics and it was always, 'I heard it from ...'
The now-famous photo that trump showed in the white House was supposed to be proof that this was happening but was actually from the Congo.
What actually has changed in the SA countryside since 1994?
- Some smaller white farmers have left. Many children have no interest in farming as their parents did. So these farms are bought up, not by blacks, but by richer white farmers who stayed.
- Many farmhouses are now abandoned. The larger owner has his own house, and keeping the houses on 5 or 6 farms occupied is impossible. The house where my father was raised is now in decay. So is his cousin's farm next door. The house 2 miles away across the valley was gorgeous back in the 1980's but is now a hunting lodge - unoccupied.
- Many of the black workers are gone from the countryside. Farmers used to employ cooks and maids and gardeners and nurses etc. - all disappeared because the whites left. Those folks all headed for the cities to find work. My dad's cousin ran a school on his farm for all the kids of the workers. But he sold up and moved to Perth. So now the house is in ruin, the school is gone, everyone's gone. Which means there is a lonely and isolated feeling around there. 8000 acres - an entire valley - with only 4-5? souls living there permanently. No whites.
- I stayed with my family in the aforementioned 'hunting lodge' for a week in 2023. No danger. No threats. A few workers came by each morning to work the lands. Wild animals have come back. Warthogs roam the dirt roads, and baboons called from the rocks - never saw that in the past.
- Before 1994, farmers were paid subsidies to plant maize or wheat. Everyone knew the area was too dry for maize, and you'd only get a crop one year in 5-6, but the insurance and subsidies kept farmers in business. The incoming black government ended 'white welfare' instead directing money to infrastructure developments in the townships - electrification, water projets, etc. Arguably fair and long overdue. But that meant a lot of white farmers couldn't make it.
- The white population of SA has hovered around 4.5M which was around 20% of the total within living memory. Now it's around 7%, but shrinkage in the white pop. is not so great. Instead the black pop. has expanded. This change has had a psychological effect on some of the whites who are now much more in the minority and out of power.
SUMMARY: So - changes, for sure. Not a genocide in any way, shape, or form. 🤔
Funny to live for more than 5 decades relatively close to a topic - white SA farmers, say - which NOBODY but a handful in the world cares or knows anything about.
And then suddenly one day EVERYBODY in the world is talking about that topic, and everybody seems to have a STRONG opinion about it.
Because I guarantee you that it in about a month NOBODY will be talking about it anymore. We'll be back to a little handful again. 😆
@spruce112358 saidWhether or not it is genocide is not relevant., especially if you have no data to support your conclusion. As usual you full of talk without facts.
As a white guy who has lived in South Africa, who has traveled widely in SA numerous times, and who has talked to and had dinner with white farmers in SA over many years, I can tell you that stories of 'farm murders' are brought out after the brandy, like ghost stories. 'There was this couple...' But try to narrow down the specifics and it was always, 'I heard it from .. ...[text shortened]... t of power.
SUMMARY: So - changes, for sure. Not a genocide in any way, shape, or form. 🤔
Do you have any actual data on murders of whites in South Africa in the last 10 years or so? I bet you dont.... nobody seems to have that .. not BBC, not any media, not Ramaphosa, not the South African police.
Do you not find that strange?
@Rajk999 saidThat which Spruce112358 brings to the discussion is personal experience of the situation, which is far more trustworthy than 'data'.
Whether or not it is genocide is not relevant., especially if you have no data to support your conclusion. As usual you full of talk without facts.
Do you have any actual data on murders of whites in South Africa in the last 10 years or so? I bet you dont.... nobody seems to have that .. not BBC, not any media, not Ramaphosa, not the South African police.
Do you not find that strange?
The fundamental point is that it's Mister Trump who has introduced the idea of white genocide into the parlance, so either he has information which nobody here has access to, or he's lying again. Given his track record to date, the smart money has to be on the latter.
@Indonesia-Phil saidWe already established that, and agreed that there is NO GENOCIDE.
That which Spruce112358 brings to the discussion is personal experience of the situation, which is far more trustworthy than 'data'.
The fundamental point is that it's Mister Trump who has introduced the idea of white genocide into the parlance, so either he has information which nobody here has access to, or he's lying again. Given his track record to date, the smart money has to be on the latter.
Can we move on?
What is the data for the murders in South Africa? This is the key piece of information which is being hidden and for good reason. The South African police are hiding something. So it is necessary to find it elsewhere.
As for Spruce personal experience, I have addressed that before. One mans personal experience does not necessarily make for accurate conclusions. In a population of about 50,000,000 you would need thousands of personal statements about their experiences on life in South Africa, to get a good feel for the truth.
So in these times when the big media houses are unreliable or biased, there is a way to find these thousands of eye-witnesses, and that is from local radio and talk-show programmes, and internet chat forums [like this one] or websites. Places like Quora, Reddit and others have thousands of people speaking up on this issue of persecution of white South African farmers, just like Spruce is doing.
Please have a read/listen of some of these and then tell me what you think. They are saying the opposite of what Spruce is saying.
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@Suzianne saidIts a shocking move by the Oval Office, they should have utilised America's extensive intelligence capabilities than someone going to youtube to grab images from Africa to suit the narrative.
Not only was the video about the Congo, but it was from 2020.
The shortest route between Cape-Town and Republic-Of-The-Congo is 2,900.59 mi (4,668.04 km).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_the_Congo%E2%80%93South_Africa_relations#/media/File:Republic_of_the_Congo_South_Africa_Locator_(orthographic_projection).svg
Interestingly the White House has not said anything about the women who were mass raped and killed in the Congo. How many Congolese refugees are they welcoming?
@congruent saidThe only thing that is shocking is your gross ignorance. Read ...
Its a shocking move by the Oval Office, they should have utilised America's extensive intelligence capabilities than someone going to youtube to grab images from Africa to suit the narrative.
The shortest route between Cape-Town and Republic-Of-The-Congo is 2,900.59 mi (4,668.04 km).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_the_Congo%E2%80%93South_Africa_relations#/m ...[text shortened]... e women who were mass raped and killed in the Congo. How many Congolese refugees are they welcoming?
As of June 30, 2024, 15,227 refugees have come to the US from the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2024, making up 22.3% of all year-to-date refugee arrivals. Afghanistan is next with 9,975 (14.6😵, followed by Syria with 8,653 (12.7😵. The numbers of refugees arriving from various nations varies greatly due to ongoing domestic circumstances.
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-refugees-are-entering-the-us/
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How many gender-violence refugees i.e. women are they welcoming as a result of the false claim by the White House? It has now been brought to their attention that they lied but what have they done specifically for the women murdered/raped in the video?
Rape/murder is still ongoing in that part of the world.
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@congruent saidExactly. Hypocrites. White people aren't the only ones worth saving.
Its a shocking move by the Oval Office, they should have utilised America's extensive intelligence capabilities than someone going to youtube to grab images from Africa to suit the narrative.
The shortest route between Cape-Town and Republic-Of-The-Congo is 2,900.59 mi (4,668.04 km).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_the_Congo%E2%80%93South_Africa_relations#/m ...[text shortened]... e women who were mass raped and killed in the Congo. How many Congolese refugees are they welcoming?
Tulsi Gabbard needs to start using her powers for good, not evil.
@Rajk999 saidHe asked ARE, not WERE. We already know Biden did what he could.
The only thing that is shocking is your gross ignorance. Read ...
As of June 30, 2024, 15,227 refugees have come to the US from the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2024, making up 22.3% of all year-to-date refugee arrivals. Afghanistan is next with 9,975 (14.6😵, followed by Syria with 8,653 (12.7😵. The numbers of refugees arriving from various nations varies ...[text shortened]... domestic circumstances.
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-refugees-are-entering-the-us/
Trump has probably already cut their funding.
@Rajk999 saidSure, you and I can move on, but the OP relates to Mister Trump, who was shown images of mass - graves and told that thousands of white South Africans are buried there, which is not true, but in true Trump style has been presented as the truth. So then, to move on, perhaps to the one about his trying to rip the heart and soul out of American universities, but that's not a comfortable place to be, so let's move on to his continuing to sanction arms supplies to a regime which is busy starving a civilian population to death, and bombing the hospitals for good measure (there's genocide for you) or maybe to his much beloved tariffs, which would in the end be disastrous for the American economy. Still, as long as he and his rich cronies get richer at the expense of the average American then....Maybe not there, then, so perhaps to his blaming a certain invaded European country for being invaded, having been taken to the cleaners by that clever Mister Putin? No, I don't like it there, either, man, when it comes to Mister Trump, it's getting hard to know where to move on to.
We already established that, and agreed that there is NO GENOCIDE.
Can we move on?
What is the data for the murders in South Africa? This is the key piece of information which is being hidden and for good reason. The South African police are hiding something. So it is necessary to find it elsewhere.
As for Spruce personal experience, I have addressed that before ...[text shortened]... me of these and then tell me what you think. They are saying the opposite of what Spruce is saying.
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@congruent saidWomen need to get priority as refugees?
How many gender-violence refugees i.e. women are they welcoming as a result of the false claim by the White House? It has now been brought to their attention that they lied but what have they done specifically for the women murdered/raped in the video?
Rape/murder is still ongoing in that part of the world.
Thats a new one.
Men are being killed in the Congo.
Women are being raped.
By the way this is Islam at work.