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@no1marauder saidWell we are agreed that the whole Iraq invasion was one big war crime but this seems to be on a more systematic level of making Ukraine uninhabitable and it’s only making Ukraine more adamant about continuing the war. Putin’s best hope is that Europe and the US start pressuring Zekensky ( if they are not already ) to come to the table ( if the Ukrainians will let him ).
I honestly don't know if bombing power plants during hostilities is a war crime or not. It seems to be SOP though; the US certainly did it to Iraq.
EDIT: There's a discussion here I haven't had time to fully read yet:https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2022/10/27/is-attacking-the-electricity-infrastructure-used-by-civilians-always-a-war-crime/
The freedom caucus controlling the HoR will give Putin some hope.
@kevcvs57 saidWe agree that Putin's invasion was unjustified and a Crime Against Peace. I hope we can also agree that a country that commits Crimes against Peace is not necessarily guilty of War Crimes because of that and must be judged on the same standard as any other combatant.
Well we are agreed that the whole Iraq invasion was one big war crime but this seems to be on a more systematic level of making Ukraine uninhabitable and it’s only making Ukraine more adamant about continuing the war. Putin’s best hope is that Europe and the US start pressuring Zekensky ( if they are not already ) to come to the table ( if the Ukrainians will let him ).
The freedom caucus controlling the HoR will give Putin some hope.
We can also agree that those nations in NATO in 1999 that were a party to the bombing of Serbian power plants but now claim that Russia bombing Ukrainian power plants is a war crime are hypocrites.
I haven't had time to finish the article, but my gut instinct is to say bombing power plants is a war crime unless they directly supply power to the government and/or the military.
I agree that this is a desperation tactic being done only because the ground war is going unsatisfactorily in the minds of those in charge of the Russian invasion.
I agree that the recent midterms and the rhetoric coming from many Republicans will give added hope to the Kremlin that aid to Ukraine may be significantly slashed.
See, we agree on a lot.
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@no1marauder saidWe usually do on most things so it’s not a massive surprise.
We agree that Putin's invasion was unjustified and a Crime Against Peace. I hope we can also agree that a country that commits Crimes against Peace is not necessarily guilty of War Crimes because of that and must be judged on the same standard as any other combatant.
We can also agree that those nations in NATO in 1999 that were a party to the bombing of Serbian power ...[text shortened]... ded hope to the Kremlin that aid to Ukraine may be significantly slashed.
See, we agree on a lot.
However as a European I do not want Putins russia coming out if this as he has with most of his transgressions in Europe whereby he gets what he wants and waits for the dust to settle before his next move. Regardless of which way the US decides to go the more liberal democracies of Europe need to view russia for the predator that it is and prepare accordingly for the asymmetric war the he appears intent on waging.
@sonhouse said"Conscripts with no training, no weapons, no clothes, just stand there in the line of fire, that's an order."
@Metal-Brain
Massive invasion. Right. Conscripts with no training, no weapons, no clothes, just stand there in the line of fire, that's an order.
You are such a PIECE OF SHYTE defending the barbarous Putin.
Tell me, how many dead would there be if Putin had not invaded Ukraine in the first place?
People running as fast as they can away from Russia because of the conscrip ...[text shortened]... ut of the Putin play book.
You make me sick to even THINK of you as an American, much less human.
That is all propaganda. All of the conscripts have training. Russia is softening up Ukraine for a massive invasion just like the USA did in Iraq. What do you think all of those conscripts with military training are for? They are for phase 2 and phase 1 is not complete.
Russia has barely just begun. It is about to get really bloody and ugly. The cloves are off. They had their chance for a peace deal and that ship has sailed. It is about to get brutal.
@Metal-Brain
Funny how Russian media dudes are saying it will take two MILLION soldiers to defeat Ukraine and you of course will continue your diatribe of Putin, your mentor and boss.
Some of those recruits didn't even have shoes.
@sonhouse saidYou thought they had no training. LOL!
@Metal-Brain
Funny how Russian media dudes are saying it will take two MILLION soldiers to defeat Ukraine and you of course will continue your diatribe of Putin, your mentor and boss.
Some of those recruits didn't even have shoes.
They all have training. Why do you think they were called up?
Ukraine is about to fold.
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@kevcvs57 saidBut this is not a game where a wish to restrain Putin would be the most important consideration. It is a war which has already caused probably well over 100,000 dead, millions to become refugees and Ukraine to have suffered massive and continuing damage. This is besides the world wide economic effects of the conflict. For both humanitarian and practical reasons the West should be seeking some kind of ceasefire at the very least.
We usually do on most things so it’s not a massive surprise.
However as a European I do not want Putins russia coming out if this as he has with most of his transgressions in Europe whereby he gets what he wants and waits for the dust to settle before his next move. Regardless of which way the US decides to go the more liberal democracies of Europe need to view russia for t ...[text shortened]... predator that it is and prepare accordingly for the asymmetric war the he appears intent on waging.
Quite frankly, I'm very pessimistic any peace deal can be reached at this point given the intransigent positions of both parties.
As regards the bombing of power plants, after studying the article I'm inclined to find them legitimate military targets as the Ukrainian government and military both use the commercial gird and none of the restrictions on "proportionality" seem to override that factor. I also find this troubling, if understandable:
"The article points out that a Ukrainian government app was repurposed following the Russian invasion. Writer Lukasz Olejnik explains:
The [app] was once used by more than 18 million Ukrainians for things like digital IDs, but it now allows users to report the movements of invading soldiers through the “e-Enemy” feature. “Anyone can help our army locate Russian troops. Use our chat bot to inform the Armed Forces,” the Ministry of Digital Transformation said of the new capability when it rolled out."
https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2022/10/27/is-attacking-the-electricity-infrastructure-used-by-civilians-always-a-war-crime/
The original article regarding the use of smartphones for Ukraine's defense is here: https://www.wired.com/story/smartphones-ukraine-civilian-combatant/
As the article points out, this app is transforming any civilian who uses it to report movements of Russian troops into a legitimate military target under the laws of war.
@sonhouse
The propaganda you are getting is pretty coordinated. Why do they all repeat the same misinformation?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/instructions-kiev-ukraine-propaganda-messaging
So you get the same consistent lies. You are more likely to believe lies that way.