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now we know what obama was referring to when he was caught on open mic tell putin to wait till after election before he could help him invade Ukrain/ Crimea...

https://m.theepochtimes.com/joe-biden-obama-officials-influenced-ukraine-to-advance-own-interests_2896259.html

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@mott-the-hoople said
now we know what obama was referring to when he was caught on open mic tell putin to wait till after election before he could help him invade Ukrain/ Crimea...

https://m.theepochtimes.com/joe-biden-obama-officials-influenced-ukraine-to-advance-own-interests_2896259.html
Again, this cuts the totally opposite way of what you think; the Russians didn't want President Yanukovych removed, reacted violently when he was (by seizing the Crimea among other things) and the US and other nations immediately put sanctions on them for it (which Donald Trump in his campaign indicated he would remove).

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@no1marauder said
Again, this cuts the totally opposite way of what you think; the Russians didn't want President Yanukovych removed, reacted violently when he was (by seizing the Crimea among other things) and the US and other nations immediately put sanctions on them for it (which Donald Trump in his campaign indicated he would remove).
They got the Crimea out of it and Putin did not want it to happen?

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@eladar said
They got the Crimea out of it and Putin did not want it to happen?
No he didn't.

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@no1marauder said
No he didn't.
Russia did not annex the Crimea and it is not a part of the Russian Federation?

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@eladar said
Russia did not annex the Crimea and it is not a part of the Russian Federation?

https://youtu.be/u-qO42qjShg
Yes, they did.

This was not a master plan, but a reaction to the pro-Russian Ukrainian President's illegal ouster.

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@no1marauder said
Yes, they did.

This was not a master plan, but a reaction to the pro-Russian Ukrainian President's illegal ouster.
Putin just happened to benefit as the video I gave points out.

Ok

Do you believe you are stating fact or your opinion?

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@eladar said
Putin just happened to benefit as the video I gave points out.

Ok

Do you believe you are stating fact or your opinion?
It's an opinion based on facts. While you were supporting the illegal ouster four years ago, I said this:

At any rate, the Putin "evil master plan" explanation really doesn't address why he waited until the Ukrainians overthrew an elected President to start his power grab in the Crimea. Nor does it explain why the Russians have consistently offered to engage in negotiations based on the February 21st agreement between the Ukraine President and the opposition that was tossed aside because the mob was strong enough and the police abandoned their posts. The fact of the matter is this has become a crisis because of the intransigence of the illegitimate, unelected "government" of the Ukraine and the 100% support that the US and EU have given this intransigence.

https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/ukraine-crisis.158024/page-13

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@no1marauder said
It's an opinion based on facts. While you were supporting the illegal ouster four years ago, I said this:

At any rate, the Putin "evil master plan" explanation really doesn't address why he waited until the Ukrainians overthrew an elected President to start his power grab in the Crimea. Nor does it explain why the Russians have consistently offered to engage in negotia ...[text shortened]... given this intransigence.

https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/ukraine-crisis.158024/page-13
Putin invaded and overtook Ukraine/Crimea...but he really really really didn't want to...LOL

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@mott-the-hoople said
Putin invaded and overtook Ukraine/Crimea...but he really really really didn't want to...LOL
That's not what I said, is it?

At any rate, your claim in the OP has been easily refuted.

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@no1marauder said
It's an opinion based on facts. While you were supporting the illegal ouster four years ago, I said this:

At any rate, the Putin "evil master plan" explanation really doesn't address why he waited until the Ukrainians overthrew an elected President to start his power grab in the Crimea. Nor does it explain why the Russians have consistently offered to engage in negotia ...[text shortened]... given this intransigence.

https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/ukraine-crisis.158024/page-13
Ok your opinion. My opinion is based on fact as well.

Your problem lies in the fact that you believe your opinion should be believed as if it were fact.

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@eladar said
Ok your opinion. My opinion is based on fact as well.

Your problem lies in the fact that you believe your opinion should be believed as if it were fact.
I presented facts which support my opinion.

You should try to do the same on a "Debates" forum.

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@no1marauder said
I presented facts which support my opinion.

You should try to do the same on a "Debates" forum.
I presented facts as well presented in the video. Putin needed to make a political pivot. Obama gave it to him both solidifying Putin's political future as well as reaquiring the Crimea.

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@eladar said
I presented facts as well presented in the video. Putin needed to make a political pivot. Obama gave it to him both solidifying Putin's political future as well as reaquiring the Crimea.
I don't watch You Tubes presented as evidence on this Forum as it is too much of a pain to quote from them to respond to any points raised plus they can be easily altered to leave out relevant parts. Cite an article if you feel it states your position clearly.

The fact of the matter is that Putin opposed the ouster of Yanukovich and made no efforts to obtain the Crimea prior to that ouster. Blaming Obama for everything is a common right wing tactic and US policy here was a poor one (though supported by virtually all US politicians), but the fact remains that Putin was reacting to events he did not want to happen. That is clear from how he tried to negotiate a political settlement in the Ukraine and only annexed the Crimea after it was rebuffed. The Russians knew they'd get punishing sanctions for doing so, but felt at that point anything less would be a severe loss of face.

And then a politician running for President of the US said he'd be willing to remove those sanctions! You don't have to guess what Russia's reaction to that would be, do ya?

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@no1marauder said
I don't watch You Tubes presented as evidence on this Forum as it is too much of a pain to quote from them to respond to any points raised plus they can be easily altered to leave out relevant parts. Cite an article if you feel it states your position clearly.

The fact of the matter is that Putin opposed the ouster of Yanukovich and made no efforts to obtain the Crimea ...[text shortened]... g to remove those sanctions! You don't have to guess what Russia's reaction to that would be, do ya?
Ok

Looks like you just need to get over yourself. Self important trash like yourself are impossible to have actual discussions.

You are welcome to your opinion. You know the opinion that Putin benefits politically but did so out of what is best for his people and not for personal gain.

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