Originally posted by RBHILLI categorically reject the notion that there is a discrete moment in
When the Bible talks about Sheep and Goats the Goats are the unsave and the Sheep are the saved. When you are saved you WILL always be saved you can not be Born Again Twice in the Spiritual sence you can only be Born Again once in the Spiritual sence.
time where you get saved, after which you cannot be unsaved. I've
never seen a sound Scriptural defense of this.
Consider, a guy who was 'saved,' having been born again, then decides
that religion is a pile of mallarky, curses Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Is he saved? He thought he was, he stated he was in his earlier life,
but then he did the indefensible: the sin for which there is no forgiveness
(cursing the Holy Spirit).
What of this person?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioHe was never saved.
I categorically reject the notion that there is a discrete moment in
time where you get saved, after which you cannot be unsaved. I've
never seen a sound Scriptural defense of this.
Consider, a guy who was 'saved,' having been born again, then decides
that religion is a pile of mallarky, curses Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Is he saved? He though ...[text shortened]... for which there is no forgiveness
(cursing the Holy Spirit).
What of this person?
Nemesio
1 edit
The verse I fell for once saved always saved:
Romans 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable
Romans 11:25-32
All Israel Will Be Saved
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,
29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Originally posted by RBHILLSo, you might not be saved because you might become this
He was never saved.
person. So being saved is a secret event; perhaps it happens
at a discrete moment in time, but the person in question does
not necessarily know about it (since he cannot predict his future
actions with 100% certainty).
In fact, a person will only be able to conclude that he is saved if
he is counted among the sheep and not before.
Nemesio
Originally posted by RBHILLAll of Israel? The 'non-believing' Jews will be saved?
The verse I fell for once saved always saved:
Romans 11:29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable
All Israel Will Be Saved Romans 11:25-32
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel ...[text shortened]... you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Or are you 'interpreting' this literal passage to mean
the metaphoical 'Israel' of Christianity.
Convenient time to become an 'interpreter' of Scripture,
no?
Nemesio
Originally posted by Nemesiowell for one thing that can be evident of salvation would be the gift of tounges
So, you might not be saved because you might become this
person. So being saved is a secret event; perhaps it happens
at a discrete moment in time, but the person in question does
not necessarily know about it (since he cannot predict his future
actions with 100% certainty).
In fact, a person will only be able to conclude that he is saved if
he is counted among the sheep and not before.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioThen maybe he is out of fellowship then and is not able to reseve that blessing God will give him so he must repent and get back into fellowship.
What happens if a person who has the gift of tongues
then later renounces God and Jesus and curses the Holy Spirit?
Nemesio
There was this one guy those who started out as Billy Graham did and is not writing books on atheism because he is one. So I believe this man was never saved.
Originally posted by RBHILLOk. So once again, we have no conclusive proof in the present
Then maybe he is out of fellowship then and is not able to reseve that blessing God will give him so he must repent and get back into fellowship.
There was this one guy those who started out as Billy Graham did and is not writing books on atheism because he is one. So I believe this man was never saved.
that anyone is saved, because at any time that person can renounce
God.
This seems to run against the Once Saved, Always Saved theory.
Nemesio
Originally posted by Nemesiono it doesnt he was never saved in the first place. God looks at the heart to see if they meen it will they call out to Jesus so then the Holy Spirit will save them. You are not a Born again Christian so that is way you do not understand. You don't open your heart to the Holy Spirit.
Ok. So once again, we have no conclusive proof in the present
that anyone is saved, because at any time that person can renounce
God.
This seems to run against the Once Saved, Always Saved theory.
Nemesio
1 edit
Originally posted by RBHILLI don't need to understand what it is to be a Born-Again
no it doesnt he was never saved in the first place. God looks at the heart to see if they meen it will they call out to Jesus so then the Holy Spirit will save them. You are not a Born again Christian so that is way you do not understand. You don't open your heart to the Holy Spirit.
Christian to understand that one is not 'Always Saved.'
Let's say one of your 'saved' members of your church
stood up and said: 'This is all crap. I hate Jesus and God
doesn't exist.' Then let's say he curses the Holy Spirit.
Was he unBorn Again? Was he a miscarriage?
My point here, RBHILL, is that no one knows if they are
'Always Saved' because there is always the possibility that
they will fall irrevocably to the devil's ways.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioNo you are wrong you are Catholic so that is way you do not understand, that person was never saved in the FIRST place you idoit.
I don't need to understand what it is to be a Born-Again
Christian to understand that one is not 'Always Saved.'
Let's say one of your 'saved' members of your church
stood up and said: 'This is all crap. I hate Jesus and God
doesn't exist.' Then let's say he curses the Holy Spirit.
Was he unBorn Again? Was he a miscarriage?
My point ...[text shortened]... re is always the possibility that
they will fall irrevocably to the devil's ways.
Nemesio
