Unemployment Rate back up to 9.8%

Originally posted by no1marauder
The first is a lie.

The second is nonsense. Yes you can turn away from ANY aspect of a Man made system if the results you are obtaining are undesirable.

I don't know where you live but if you lived out here in the desert you'd know a reality which is - darn right that illegals do work that others don't. You ever work on a roof at 188 degrees in the sun. You want to pick filds in that weather, work the streets?

We use the word "lie" so loosely on this site that it has lost it's meaning. Disgreements exist, lies rarely. These debate threads need a reality check.

Originally posted by badmoon
I don't know where you live but if you lived out here in the desert you'd know a reality which is - darn right that illegals do work that others don't. You ever work on a roof at 188 degrees in the sun. You want to pick filds in that weather, work the streets?

We use the word "lie" so loosely on this site that it has lost it's meaning. Disgreements exist, lies rarely. These debate threads need a reality check.

That illegals presently do work that others don't hardly proves that others wouldn't do it. Right now there are 5 applicants for every job that opens. The idea that working class Americans are too lazy to work is a spurious lie.

Originally posted by badmoon
I don't know where you live but if you lived out here in the desert you'd know a reality which is - darn right that illegals do work that others don't. You ever work on a roof at 188 degrees in the sun. You want to pick filds in that weather, work the streets?

We use the word "lie" so loosely on this site that it has lost it's meaning. Disgreements exist, lies rarely. These debate threads need a reality check.

I live in Atlanta Ga. If you are in to Construction, residential or commercial good luck finding a job.

They have flooded this area for years. Masonry,drywall carpentry,land scapeing, you name it they got the majority of the jobs.

Its a very sophisticated system the coyote's have set up on the Mexico side alond w/their counter parts here.

It cost each illegal approx. $3500 to cross the boarder and sent here. they are put in a apartment w/ 10+ other illegals,no furniture sleep on the floor,given fake stolen i.d.'s and given jobs on construction sites by their coyote legal bosses on this side who run large crews of workers. They are forced to pay him back the $3500 through working for them. ( and paying him rent, and for transportation,etc)
$50 a day for laborers. 12-16 hours a day. "skilled workers",masons for example will top out a little higher in some cases per day..

To say Americans dont want those Jobs is a lie and "useless" knows this. And you do too.

When #1 says that I lie is one thing, but when he pulls out his "spurious lie" card then I get upset.

Twice recently he says that my lies are spurious and they really are not....um, lies or spurious.

I've just been checking, #1 calls everybody a lier that disagrees with him. Apparently, #1 is the only source of the truth, or is that Truth, #1?

Originally posted by badmoon
When #1 says that I lie is one thing, but when he pulls out his "spurious lie" card then I get upset.

Twice recently he says that my lies are spurious and they really are not....um, lies or spurious.

I've just been checking, #1 calls everybody a lier that disagrees with him. Apparently, #1 is the only source of the truth, or is that Truth, #1?

When someone says that Americans won't do the jobs that illegal do (I wonder who did these jobs before we got so lax about our borders), they are telling a falsehood commonly known as a lie. It is true there are a lot of purveyors of falsehoods on this board but it's possible you might just be profoundly ignorant. People who are ignorant and are then presented with the facts usually admit their error, but you don't seem to want to do that.

Originally posted by no1marauder
When someone says that Americans won't do the jobs that illegal do (I wonder who did these jobs before we got so lax about our borders), they are telling a falsehood commonly known as a lie. It is true there are a lot of purveyors of falsehoods on this board but it's possible you might just be profoundly ignorant. People who are ignorant and are then presented with the facts usually admit their error, but you don't seem to want to do that.

Honestly, I enjoy your use of adjectives and adverbs. Makes you appear powerful.

Next, about that border, we have never utilyzed a greater amount of resources to protect the border than we do today. Getting lax about it, I disagree.

For the wages that are offered, citizens are not taking the jobs. You know that, Uther knows that and I know that. How much are you willing to pay for anew home or groceries? I bet you wouldn't want to afford that inflation.

I'm not the only soul on the block saying these things.

I don't know what facts you're showing me, seems like a lot of silly shouting, adjectively speaking.

My only beef with you, as you are entitled to your opinion, is that you constantly make personal attacks with name calling and such. You seem so very narcisistic at times that it makes you vulnerable and less likely to take seriously.

Originally posted by badmoon
Honestly, I enjoy your use of adjectives and adverbs. Makes you appear powerful.

Next, about that border, we have never utilyzed a greater amount of resources to protect the border than we do today. Getting lax about it, I disagree.

For the wages that are offered, citizens are not taking the jobs. You know that, Uther knows that and I know that. Ho ...[text shortened]... know what facts you're showing me, seems like a lot of silly shouting, adjectively speaking.

Whose gonna work for less than min. wage? Or even min.wage when you're a skilled tradesman?
Answer, an illegal from Mexico or Central America

Originally posted by badmoon
Honestly, I enjoy your use of adjectives and adverbs. Makes you appear powerful.

Next, about that border, we have never utilyzed a greater amount of resources to protect the border than we do today. Getting lax about it, I disagree.

For the wages that are offered, citizens are not taking the jobs. You know that, Uther knows that and I know that. Ho ...[text shortened]... know what facts you're showing me, seems like a lot of silly shouting, adjectively speaking.

Then they'll just have to offer higher wages, won't they? That's called supply and demand. Illegals are both taking jobs from American workers AND forcing down wages for citizens and those legitimately here.

How many millions of illegals would have to be here before you'd consider border security "lax"?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Whose gonna work for less than min. wage? Or even min.wage when you're a skilled tradesman?
Answer, an illegal from Mexico or Central America

The trade off is easily identifiable, we either go with it, or we don't. But there are costs.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Then they'll just have to offer higher wages, won't they? That's called supply and demand. Illegals are both taking jobs from American workers AND forcing down wages for citizens and those legitimately here.

How many millions of illegals would have to be here before you'd consider border security "lax"?

I'm just saying that we spend more and more on the border, which allows mor and more arrests, that causes me to disagree that we have become more lax about. Maybe Reagan was lax with the amnesty program?

Originally posted by badmoon
The trade off is easily identifiable, we either go with it, or we don't. But there are costs.

What part of "illegal" don't you grasp? We've already decided on the trade off now it's time to enforce the laws against those hiring illegals.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What part of "illegal" don't you grasp? We've already decided on the trade off now it's time to enforce the laws against those hiring illegals.

Simple, create a scheme where they are no longer illegal.

Originally posted by badmoon
I'm just saying that we spend more and more on the border, which allows mor and more arrests, that causes me to disagree that we have become more lax about. Maybe Reagan was lax with the amnesty program?

I wasn't referring to present border conditions which are essentially locking the barn door after the cows have left. Policing the border, while necessary, will not solve the problem which was created by lax border conditions in the past. The government concedes we have almost 11 million illegals in the country NOW (the number "plunged" last year but is still at near record levels: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/11/national/main6197466.shtml). That those employed are taking American jobs + forcing down wages of other workers is an undeniable economic fact.

Originally posted by badmoon
Simple, create a scheme where they are no longer illegal.

30 million American citizens are un- and under-employed; why should we legalize 11 million lawbreakers who force down wages and take jobs from our people? I'd give businesses a month to verify that those working for them are here legally and then start rigorous inspections (hire as many INS agents as needed); if illegals are found working for you or your corporation you forfeit 10% of your company's assets. Maybe seize 10% of the corporate officials assets' too; we use seizure laws against others who benefit from breaking the law, why should these guys get a pass because they're rich?

Employers nearly alwasy ask for verification. There are very few instances of employers distinctly targeting illegasls for employment, at least here in Az. I'm saying this because your demand that all employers re-verify would ultimately gain the same results. It's just easy to get through the loop.