UnitedHealthcare: Jackal Barkings vs. Reality

@Soothfast said
Fact is, there is absolutely nothing efficient about a privatized healthcare system whatsoever.

Slight amendment... "Fact is, there is absolutely nothing efficient about a highly regulated privatized healthcare system whatsoever."

A completely deregulated healthcare "free market" would be efficient because that's what free markets do best - match up supply and demand.

Few people are willing to absorb the risks of deregulated healthcare, though. They want lots and lots of regulations to reduce risk.

@spruce112358 said
Slight amendment... "Fact is, there is absolutely nothing efficient about a highly regulated privatized healthcare system whatsoever."

A completely deregulated healthcare "free market" would be efficient because that's what free markets do best - match up supply and demand.

Few people are willing to absorb the risks of deregulated healthcare, though. They want lots and lots of regulations to reduce risk.

There is absolutely no such thing as a completely pure free market, and never will be. Politics, economics, and society are always intertwined, and wherever there is money involved there will be special interests ready to spend that money to obtain an edge over others by lobbying politicians to pass this or that law or regulation. In mathematical terms, in a dynamical system such as a national economy a free market is an "unstable fixed point," which means it won't last for any significant span of time. (Think of balancing a bowling ball on the tip of a needle.) And it's not just insurance companies that would lobby for advantages in any hypothetical unregulated healthcare system: the interests of patients and doctors would also pressure government to pass laws and regulations to temper perceived imperfections in the system, genuine or not.

@Soothfast said
There is absolutely no such thing as a completely pure free market, and never will be. Politics, economics, and society are always intertwined, and wherever there is money involved there will be special interests ready to spend that money to obtain an edge over others by lobbying politicians to pass this or that law or regulation. In mathematical terms, in a dynamical sys ...[text shortened]... laws and regulations to temper the imperfections in any hypothetical unregulated healthcare system.

Governments should protect the rights of all individuals equally and remain studiously aloof from special interest group lobbying because "groups" do not have rights. Only individuals have rights. 😆

When governments commit to that, I think free markets are possible - maybe not "absolutely" free but close.

@spruce112358 said
Slight amendment... "Fact is, there is absolutely nothing efficient about a highly regulated privatized healthcare system whatsoever."

A completely deregulated healthcare "free market" would be efficient because that's what free markets do best - match up supply and demand.

Few people are willing to absorb the risks of deregulated healthcare, though. They want lots and lots of regulations to reduce risk.

And what about preexisting conditions? What would compel insurance companies to cover a losing bet in a completely unregulated healthcare system?

@spruce112358 said
Governments should protect the rights of all individuals equally and remain studiously aloof from special interest group lobbying because "groups" do not have rights. Only individuals have rights. 😆

When governments commit to that, I think free markets are possible - maybe not "absolutely" free but close.

Who's going to make governments commit to such things? Governments are people, and people have conflicting interests and ideas.

@Soothfast said
And what about preexisting conditions? What would compel insurance companies to cover a losing bet in a completely unregulated healthcare system?

They might not, but it wouldn't matter. Completely removing regulation would cause costs to drop so fast, people would just pay out of pocket for stuff. 😆

China and India would flood the US with generic drugs.
Physicians around the world would be doing exams online.
Amazon Labs would send a van to your house to collect samples and post the results within the hour to your MyChart account.
Imaging clinics would sprout up in malls.
AI would be analyzing your chart history and coming up with novel diagnoses and treatments
etc., etc.

The only thing stopping all this is regulation. Because "it would be risky." 😆

@Soothfast said
Who's going to make governments commit to such things?

"We The People." 😆

That's our job. Which we would do if we had civics classes in school that told us "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS."

@spruce112358 said
They might not, but it wouldn't matter. Completely removing regulation would cause costs to drop so fast, people would just pay out of pocket for stuff. 😆

China and India would flood the US with generic drugs.
Physicians around the world would be doing exams online.
Amazon Labs would send a van to your house to collect samples and post the results within the hour t ...[text shortened]... tments
etc., etc.

The only thing stopping all this is regulation. Because "it would be risky." 😆

For some reason Judy Garland is now singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow in my head.

While I might agree that upwards of 80% or so of medical expenses in the US are attributable to waste, price gouging, inefficiency and fraud, that remaining 20% is still formidable. I don't think the price of an MRI is ever going to go down to "$99 for the 1st, get the 2nd half off." Even for products folks don't really need, the market will always peg prices at whatever, say, a customer with average means can barely tolerate. That's how profits are maximized.

@Soothfast said
Tell me, do you think charitable donations will help keep childcare centers in Idaho lastingly afloat?

Charitable donations are laudable, but at the end of the day they are unpredictable and catch-as-catch-can. To run a day care requires leasing floor space, buying equipment and hiring employees, getting insurance. Those are locked-in expenses that one must plan for. ...[text shortened]... ep the whole system humming.

You know what they call that system, Joe?

They call it "society."

For the record, you would be more than surprised at my activities with at-risk children. The Blind Side? Leigh Ann Touhey rescuing a poor black kid who became the great Michael Oher f'ball star? She is a friend of mine, through the events to aid these children. Mostly black kids in the south. I only say that, that you know that i can commensurate in this concern of yours, and everybody's. It is a problem for every state, each state does what it can do, with what they have to work with, day in and day out. These probs are nothing new, as difficult as they are, so I do not get your real question. I know nothing of the Idaho situation, it is all I can do to help in keeping things afloat in Ga, MS and AL. Not day care like your commitments, but at-risk facilities to give them a future. We get money where we can get it.. It is a struggle but we are successful.
So, I have no input on a situation in ID ], nor any state other than the ones dear to my heart.n Anyway, to answer your question, I would thimk that it would take a LOT more than charitable donations. Annual Fundraisers, where the good people you are speaking of show up to bid unbelievable amounts for a case of wine or concert tickets, or the use of a private villa for a vacation in Italy. Raises a bit over $1M. I am happy to put a vacation home on the block!! A wonderful bunch of people, and the wine flows.
So, chase the money wherever you can get it. Last year I traveled for a whole day to an OleMiss football game just to accost and talk to a legislator, who knew I was coming, in a van in the parking lot, for Ten Minutes!! Then went home. Talk personally with legislators. Your post does not tell me anything that is not occuring in every state, I assume. One thing we do not do is complain about is money we are not getting....we just keep pushing with a smile, and hope that someday we will break through in each instance. Look into Grants, even from a local Ladies Flower Club, there is money out there, all you have to do is ask for it.
Not great fodder for the Forum, let's find out where Sonhouse is. He may have checked in with his TDS symptoms. Let me get you upset to get back on track....Biden has NEVER been to an Army-NAVY Game as president. Ugh

@Soothfast said
What "benefits of competition"? You mean the US private medical system's "competition"?

Have a look between chugs:
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/oct/high-us-health-care-spending-where-is-it-all-going
[quote]The United States spends twice as much per person on health as peer nations. Current research points to higher prices as a drivin ...[text shortened]... the same way: see any doctor you want, in any state in the union, but you might have to pay extra.

I have never studied this health care thing, seems like all was hunky dory till Obama, I don't really remember. And I can leave it up to legislators to figure it out, it is fun to argue here on some things, but healthcare programs are too convoluted to waste time on.
I do not kniw enough about it to discuss, so I beg off on insurance discussions. Maybe people will soon wake up and plan for their futures now that there may be more Freedoms, if Trump lives up to his promises. Then, they will not live beyond their means or have too many children till they can afford it, which time will come AFTER they have gotten a program for health insurance.
As to my long article I sent you, it says I may lose my freedom of choice???? Probably our most sacred freedom. So there it is, but then you come along and say, well, we can tweak all that. Of course we can. I am not a member here will toss that potato around while they are tweaking. Let me know if I have any choice when it is all over. If I lose my freedom, I will hire a Doctor to live in my house with a nice life style, and do my thing.
Alas, he will not be a good doctor, the govt will open the Med schools like they did our Border.
I am not for paying for ANYTHING for the illegals, they must learn to go home. That will free up resources to care for our OWN people. Silly me.

@AverageJoe1 said
I have never studied this health care thing, seems like all was hunky dory till Obama, I don't really remember. And I can leave it up to legislators to figure it out, it is fun to argue here on some things, but healthcare programs are too convoluted to waste time on.
I do not kniw enough about it to discuss, so I beg off on insurance discussions. Maybe people will ...[text shortened]... als, they must learn to go home. That will free up resources to care for our OWN people. Silly me.

Obama gave you the republican's health care plan. Then the republicans pretended they were against their own idea. Then the democrats supported the republican health care plan because they thought republicans were against it.

People have short memories, especially in politics.

@Metal-Brain said
Obama gave you the republican's health care plan. Then the republicans pretended they were against their own idea. Then the democrats supported the republican health care plan because they thought republicans were against it.

People have short memories, especially in politics.

The ACA, or Obamacare, was never a Republican idea. You give them far too much credit, like you always do. They've tried to rescind it many times and failed each time. They WISH they had an idea as good.

@AverageJoe1 said
I have never studied this health care thing, seems like all was hunky dory till Obama, I don't really remember. And I can leave it up to legislators to figure it out, it is fun to argue here on some things, but healthcare programs are too convoluted to waste time on.
I do not kniw enough about it to discuss, so I beg off on insurance discussions. Maybe people will ...[text shortened]... als, they must learn to go home. That will free up resources to care for our OWN people. Silly me.

You are a selfish, inconsiderate, soulless bastard.

@AverageJoe1 said
For the record, you would be more than surprised at my activities with at-risk children. The Blind Side? Leigh Ann Touhey rescuing a poor black kid who became the great Michael Oher f'ball star? She is a friend of mine, through the events to aid these children. Mostly black kids in the south. I only say that, that you know that i can commensurate in this concern of ...[text shortened]... e get you upset to get back on track....Biden has NEVER been to an Army-NAVY Game as president. Ugh

Please.

@spruce112358 said
They might not, but it wouldn't matter. Completely removing regulation would cause costs to drop so fast, people would just pay out of pocket for stuff. 😆

China and India would flood the US with generic drugs.
Physicians around the world would be doing exams online.
Amazon Labs would send a van to your house to collect samples and post the results within the hour t ...[text shortened]... tments
etc., etc.

The only thing stopping all this is regulation. Because "it would be risky." 😆

This is, hands down, the worst idea I ever heard.

Drugs are safe and effective because of regulation.