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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '12 13:11
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/06/06/wisconsin_gov_scott_walker_wins_recall_election_114387.html

    After all that... A gung-ho anti-union capitalist budget cutter cruises to a relatively easy win in a blue(ish) state.

    Go figure.

    Maybe the people finally are starting to get serious about deficit reduction.
  2. 06 Jun '12 13:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/06/06/wisconsin_gov_scott_walker_wins_recall_election_114387.html

    After all that... A gung-ho anti-union capitalist budget cutter cruises to a relatively easy win in a blue(ish) state.

    Go figure.

    Maybe the people finally are starting to get serious about deficit reduction.
    Yes, let the middle class and union crushing begin... or continue!!

    Let the terrible job creation record continue.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '12 14:04
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Yes, let the middle class and union crushing begin... or continue!!

    Let the terrible job creation record continue.
    How has Scott Walker been crushing the middle class?
  4. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    06 Jun '12 14:07 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Yes, let the middle class and union crushing begin... or continue!!

    Let the terrible job creation record continue.
    Yeah because the middle class consists entirely of unions that have a "right" to collect dues by force and then use the money to bribe politicians.

    No. The middle class won big last night. The budget got balanced, public employees got to stay employed, and public employees gained a choice of whether to be union members. Win win win.
  5. 06 Jun '12 14:17
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    Yeah because the middle class consists entirely of unions that have a "right" to collect dues by force and then use the money to bribe politicians.
    .
    Yeah because I even came close to saying that.

    Enjoy your strawman.
  6. 06 Jun '12 14:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    public employees got to stay employed.
    Except for the ones that didn't.
  7. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    06 Jun '12 14:18
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Yeah because I even came close to saying that.

    Enjoy your strawman.
    If that's a strawman then answer sh76's question. How is Walker "crushing the middle class?"
  8. 06 Jun '12 14:18
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    public employees gained a choice of whether to be union members.
    The problem is that they are losing the choice to be union members.
  9. 06 Jun '12 14:20
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    If that's a strawman then answer sh76's question. How is Walker "crushing the middle class?"
    So you put up a strawman and then I'm forced to respond to someone else's question?

    Sorry, just because you're making such a ridiculous demand makes me more likely not to answer the question.
  10. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    06 Jun '12 14:29
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    So you put up a strawman and then I'm forced to respond to someone else's question?

    Sorry, just because you're making such a ridiculous demand makes me more likely not to answer the question.
    It's my question as well. It's the OBVIOUS question. You said the middle class is being crushed. How is that so? Is the middle class being crushed by:

    a) a balanced budget
    b) public employees keeping their jobs
    c) ???

    You fill it in.
  11. 06 Jun '12 14:29
    Originally posted by sh76
    How has Scott Walker been crushing the middle class?
    Since there is definitely data that shows that in higher unionized states the general middle class (which includes non-union jobs) is stronger.

    http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/09/madland_unions.html

    I know you'll probably dismiss this a simply being "spin" or whatever, but I guess you're free to shoot the messenger if you want.

    By busting unions you do hurt the middle class because union workers are a good part of the middle class and that the non-union jobs in the middle class end up with gains from strong unions.

    So while union workers are part of the middle class, contrary to sleepyguy's ridiculous strawman, I never said or suggested that they were equivalent to the middle class.

    Walker has also implemented policies that shift wealth from people in the middle class to the upper class by increasing fees to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy.

    These policies have succeeded in helping Wisconsin lose the most jobs in the country out of any state since he took office. I am sure all those jobs lost don't hurt the middle class at all either.
  12. 06 Jun '12 14:30
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    It's my question as well. It's the OBVIOUS question. You said the middle class is being crushed. How is that so? Is the middle class being crushed by:

    a) a balanced budget
    b) public employees keeping their jobs
    c) ???

    You fill it in.
    C) public employees losing their jobs.
    D) public employees who keep their jobs having their salaries, pensions reduced significantly.

    Is part of it.
  13. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    06 Jun '12 14:31
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    The problem is that they are losing the choice to be union members.
    They had a choice before?

    What prevents a public employee from remaining a union member?
  14. 06 Jun '12 14:35
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    They had a choice before?

    What prevents a public employee from remaining a union member?
    You think Walker's plan just ends where it started? Really are you that naive?

    When you weaken and then destroy a union then you don't have a choice to remain a union member.
  15. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    06 Jun '12 14:40
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    C) public employees losing their jobs.
    D) public employees who keep their jobs having their salaries, pensions reduced significantly.

    Is part of it.
    Public employees make up what, maybe 5% of the population of WI? So some of this 5% losing their jobs, and others having compensation reduced equals "crushing the middle class" of WI?

    Why doesn't the other 95% of the state benefiting from a balanced budget factor in?