Walker cruises in WI recall election

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Your post implied that I am suggesting we force everyone into a union. That is not at all what I ever suggested.

You also suggested that my argument was that it's "all about choice". I never made that claim either.

So, no that isn't the gist of my argument, it's an oversimplification and misrepresentation.

I don't really have time right now to ...[text shortened]... g such strawmen so maybe I'll be able to clarify later... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sleepyguy said:

public employees gained a choice of whether to be union members.


You replied:

The problem is that they are losing the choice to be union members.


Other than there possibly being fewer unions (by people choosing, thanks to reforms, not to join them)... how exactly is anyone's choice of whether they're in a union or not diminished in any way? If this sounds like a strawman, forgive me.
I don't see an alternative though.
diminished?

Originally posted by techsouth
Sleepyguy said:

[b]public employees gained a choice of whether to be union members.


You replied:

The problem is that they are losing the choice to be union members.


Other than there possibly being fewer unions (by people choosing, thanks to reforms, not to join them)... how exactly is anyone's choice of whether they're in a unio ...[text shortened]... If this sounds like a strawman, forgive me.
I don't see an alternative though.
diminished?[/b]

That statement I made does not mean or imply that it is ALL about choice.

Originally posted by sh76
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/06/06/wisconsin_gov_scott_walker_wins_recall_election_114387.html

After all that... A gung-ho anti-union capitalist budget cutter cruises to a relatively easy win in a blue(ish) state.

Go figure.

Maybe the people finally are starting to get serious about deficit reduction.

They stormed the statehouse like roaches.

They camped around his house like they were Occuy Wall Street.

They tried to recall him and send him home packing.

Yet he never backed down and he beat them.

Walker for President 2016!! 😀

Originally posted by whodey
They stormed the statehouse like roaches.

Classy simile there.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Except for the ones that didn't.

Which number is much smaller, by all sharing sacrifices.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Since there is definitely data that shows that in higher unionized states the general middle class (which includes non-union jobs) is stronger.

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/09/madland_unions.html

I know you'll probably dismiss this a simply being "spin" or whatever, but I guess you're free to shoot the messenger if you want.
...[text shortened]... e he took office. I am sure all those jobs lost don't hurt the middle class at all either.

Walker's primary thrust was on public sector unions. Their position differs from generic industrial unions.

They are people hired by public entities and elected officials, and the unions heavily participate in politics, and after being successful are in a position to grant quid pro quos to unions.

I believe you'll find that heavily unionized States also have higher taxation to support unionized public labor, and generally higher cost of living. Those not in those unions support them but don't share in the benefits.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Another strawman. Enjoy it.

I didn't say that on its own is crushing the middle class - it is part of the overall strategy.

Your saying there is some conspiracy, but failing to define it.

Originally posted by rwingett
If you think it represents anything other than a victory for corporate cash then you're a fool.

How do you see a corporate boogie man in this?

Originally posted by sh76
There are federal laws that protect private job unions. I don't think a governor could have much impact on private unions if he wanted to. He could affect public unions because he controls the purse strings from which public employees get paid.

The fastest growing States are all right to work. States insisting on old school union rules are going toward extinction.

Originally posted by normbenign
How do you see a corporate boogie man in this?

Don't be a retard.

Originally posted by normbenign
Your saying there is some conspiracy, but failing to define it.

I never said there was a conspiracy. I said there was a plan. Can you not see the difference?

Originally posted by normbenign
Which number is much smaller, by all sharing sacrifices.

Yes and the wealthy are sharing the sacrifices by enjoying lower taxes?

Don't give me this B.S. about sharing sacrifices when only one group is actually being asked to sacrifice while others get greater benefits that are paid for by those sacrifices.

Originally posted by normbenign
Walker's primary thrust was on public sector unions. Their position differs from generic industrial unions.

They are people hired by public entities and elected officials, and the unions heavily participate in politics, and after being successful are in a position to grant quid pro quos to unions.

I believe you'll find that heavily unionized States ...[text shortened]... gher cost of living. Those not in those unions support them but don't share in the benefits.

I know I'll find more heavily unionized states have higher average salaries - even in non-unionized jobs. That was shown in the study I linked to.

Originally posted by wittywonka
Classy simile there.

Class isn't something whodey knows much about.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
Class isn't something whodey knows much about.

Well I was going to thank Obama and all of his liberal cronies for the win, but because I have such class I held back these sentiments.

Speaking of class, at least I never stormed the White House when Obama won and refused to leave and then defecated in public on cars and tried to have him recalled........even though I was tempted to do these things and more!! 😛