What is religious freedom?

Debate, not spirituality.

Here's one definition: "It is the right to think, express and act upon what you deeply believe, according to the dictates of conscience"

It seems then, from one legal perspective, that this could be applied to almost any human action, depending only on the terminology used to describe the action. Of course then it need explicitly stated that having a religious objection to a law is not a constitutionally-allowed exemption from following it. Otherwise you are welcome to come join my Church of "We Don't Pay Taxes".

Two questions:

Can a website designer refuse to offer services to a gay man, which would violate equal protections rights, because of religious freedom?

Can a website designer refuse to offer services for weddings or marriages, because of religious freedom?

The action is the same in both examples. But in the first example, this person could cite the Bible. In the second example, since marriages and weddings are legal and cultural terms, not religious ones, I would not think the service could be legally refused.

It seems we play a silly dance of terminology to justify actions or inactions, but the principles of freedom and equal protections are fundamentally in conflict unless we guarantee both for everyone. This has allowed religion to be an excuse to opt of certain civil rights laws entirely. But only some of them - if the Supreme Court likes it.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/religious-freedom

@wildgrass said
Debate, not spirituality.

Here's one definition: "It is the right to think, express and act upon what you deeply believe, according to the dictates of conscience"

It seems then, from one legal perspective, that this could be applied to almost any human action, depending only on the terminology used to describe the action. Of course then it need explicitly stated that ...[text shortened]... eme Court likes it.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/religious-freedom

@averagejoe1 said
It comes down to use of public utilities (roads, street cleaners, police patrols going by your front door, fire dept etc. Tax-supported things. Not access to electricity, water, etc., as you pay that out of pocket. That is your choice..
So the entrepreneur should provide that service to whoever walks in the door. However, if that entrepreneur is sitting in a shack do ...[text shortened]... s offended in Michigan can you sue someone who has offended them.!!!
Are we having fun or what.

@wildgrass said
Debate, not spirituality.

Here's one definition: "It is the right to think, express and act upon what you deeply believe, according to the dictates of conscience"

It seems then, from one legal perspective, that this could be applied to almost any human action, depending only on the terminology used to describe the action. Of course then it need explicitly stated that ...[text shortened]... eme Court likes it.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/religious-freedom

@zahlanzi said
religious freedom means you are free to practice your religion withing the confines of a state. It doesn't mean you override that state's laws and it doesn't mean your religious freedom emanates into other people's lives.

You don't get to say "my god doesn't want me to pay taxes". It doesn't mean "my god wants YOU to do something so you must otherwise i feel persecuted"

In other news the US is fast becoming a theocracy and americans are losing their freedom.

@wildgrass said
Debate, not spirituality.

Here's one definition: "It is the right to think, express and act upon what you deeply believe, according to the dictates of conscience"

It seems then, from one legal perspective, that this could be applied to almost any human action, depending only on the terminology used to describe the action. Of course then it need explicitly stated that ...[text shortened]... eme Court likes it.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/religious-freedom

@wildgrass said
At the very least, if you are illegally discriminating against a person or group for religious beliefs reasons, shouldn't you be required to prove that your belief is sincerely held? That doesn't seem to be the case here: the website designer had worked with gay people before, but refused this particular hypothetical project because they wanted to get married.

So, she do ...[text shortened]... news.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-rules-web-designer-refused-work-sex-weddings-rcna68629

@zahlanzi said
"At the very least, if you are illegally discriminating against a person or group for religious beliefs reasons, shouldn't you be required to prove that your belief is sincerely held?"
Nop. Personal religious beliefs should never be more important that the laws of a country. Otherwise you can claim whatever you want. You can make your own religion where you "sincerely believe" taxes are evil. Or kill your children because you think transfusions are evil (or vaccines)

@wildgrass said
... thereby rendering religious freedom completely a moot point in the context of the gay website creator?

@wildgrass said
... thereby rendering religious freedom completely a moot point in the context of the gay website creator?

@averagejoe1 said
It comes down to use of public utilities (roads, street cleaners, police patrols going by your front door, fire dept etc. Tax-supported things. Not access to electricity, water, etc., as you pay that out of pocket. That is your choice..
So the entrepreneur should provide that service to whoever walks in the door. However, if that entrepreneur is sitting in a shack do ...[text shortened]... s offended in Michigan can you sue someone who has offended them.!!!
Are we having fun or what.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

A child in Idaho died because her parents (fundamentalist Mormons) resorted to prayer instead of taking her to a doctor. Her parents were not charged with manslaughter due to their religious beliefs.

This is what happens when "freedom of religion" outranks individual rights.

@vivify said
Religious freedom doesn't trump civil rights.

@wildgrass said
What does it trump?

@vivify said
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help

A child in Idaho died because her parents (fundamentalist Mormons) resorted to prayer instead of taking her to a doctor. Her parents were not charged with manslaughter due to their religious beliefs.

This is what happens when "freedom of religion" outranks individual rights.