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Originally posted by generalissimoThat's an idiotic rationale. That's exactly like saying "Ending slavery is not economically realistic for the South, so it's ridiculous."
it is ridiculous because it is not realistic.
....
I'll tell you what's ridiculous - declaring whether something is ridiculous based on the rationale of whether it's "realistic" or not......🙄
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Originally posted by scacchipazzodude, para...graphs.
First off it is very bad manners and rude to criticize your host. Most immigrants are here because things were not quite rosy where they come from. Us Americans, a nation of immigrants, embrace one and all with open arms. Redneckism, as you call it, is engaging in the very behavior you deplore for you happen to be judging people by their color. Can't ha ...[text shortened]... e right to whine as much as they want. They don't have a right to be embraced for whining!
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Originally posted by SeitseWhen they stop saying things like "I have American citizenship, but I'm really an X in America" with X being their country of origin.
Many times, here and somewhere else, I've heard people speaking about
non native people of their country in terms of "not having the right to whine"
about their adoptive country. Usually is the typical redneckism of "what
the hell did they come for in the first place?".
Funny, those targeted by these comments are usually of different skin color
of their new country? After they shout patriotic gibberish and wave the flag?
When?
It's when they believe they are Americans, period, and that this is a good thing, because we strive to perfect our union and to respect human rights.
This doesn't mean abandonment of ancestral culture, but it does require acknowledgement that it was one's ancestral culture, and not one's current culture (unless you're a North American Indian perhaps, and even then they have their own sovereign nations).
It has to do with where your primary national allegience is.
When they will say "I am not X, I am American of X ancestry/origin". That's a good sign.
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Originally posted by Seitsedepends where you're talking about. europe for example has seen an influx of eastern europeans to the west in the last 10 years plus. same color and often of the same religion but yet they're treated with the same inhospitably of those immigrants of a different race and/or religion.
Funny, those targeted by these comments are usually of different skin color or
practice a religion which is not mainstream,
i think it's natural for a counties people to fear a mass increase of people into their country from another and we both know what fear leads to. look at america, they hated it when the irish came over in bulk at first but now pride themselves of being 'part irish' more so than the irish do for being irish.
maybe the same will happen for mexicans in america in future generations, who knows.
Originally posted by trev33Irish and Germans both in fact were treated like this.
depends where you're talking about. europe for example has seen an influx of eastern europeans to the west in the last 10 years plus. same color and often of the same religion but yet they're treated with the same inhospitably of those immigrants of a different race and/or religion.
i think it's natural for a counties people to fear a mass increase of peo ...[text shortened]... h.
maybe the same will happen for mexicans in america in future generations, who knows.
Originally posted by SeitseAS I said, they have the right to say whatever the hell they want as much s we have the right to dislike what they say. They don't have to be here. It is the height of rudeness to come here to complian. We already have plenty of whiners as it is! The prblem is we are not respected in return. Respect is gained and these do ont earn it one bit. I know plenty of decent, hard working ones, but there ar also quite a few bad apples. I wish them no harm. I'm not so sure the other way around!
I heard that before. What can be more quintessentially American in the eyes of
Americans themselves than exercising and respecting freedom of speech?
I rest my case.
Originally posted by scacchipazzoWhat do your dislikes, what you think is decent and what you think the height of rudeness is, and whether or not you feel respected, have to do with "When does a person become of one country?" It's almost as if you are inadvertently shifting the topic to your own self-esteem issues, yet again
AS I said, they have the right to say whatever the hell they want as much s we have the right to dislike what they say. They don't have to be here. It is the height of rudeness to come here to complian. We already have plenty of whiners as it is! The prblem is we are not respected in return. Respect is gained and these do ont earn it one bit. I know ple ...[text shortened]... ere ar also quite a few bad apples. I wish them no harm. I'm not so sure the other way around!
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Originally posted by scacchipazzoI apologize in advance for such a shallow suggestion, but try to check
It is the height of rudeness to come here to complian.
again the closing speech of Larry Flint's lawyer before the Supreme Court.
You're missing the point: who is they? What makes someone an acceptable
whiner and another person a non acceptable whiner?
The passport? Eating pumpkin pie? Singing the 7th inning song? What?
The whiners of today are also immigrants, remember. So question remains: after
how many generations someone becomes "entitled" to participate politically, e.g.
criticize and propose the status quo ?
Originally posted by SeitseWhen you stop taking such nonsense from your fellow citizens and stop seeing yourself as a foreigner.
After working, paying taxes, and even getting a citizenship of the country they
immigrated to, when does a person "become" of that country and, hence, gains
the right to participate actively in his/her new country's politics, including making
criticisms to it?
Once you have citizenship, you have as many rights as anyone else (except you cant stand for president in a surprising number of countries - in blatant disregard for democracy) and you should stand up for those rights and anybody who doesn't like it must deal with it.
Originally posted by SeitseLook at palynka's answer. I feel the same way. That said, I disapprove of mistreatment of anyone for the mere fact of status. They seem to do well enough amongst themselves in mistreating each other badly. If whites treated browns they way they do one another there would be widespread rioting!
I apologize in advance for such a shallow suggestion, but try to check
again the closing speech of Larry Flint's lawyer before the Supreme Court.
You're missing the point: who is they? What makes someone an acceptable
whiner and another person a non acceptable whiner?
The passport? Eating pumpkin pie? Singing the 7th inning song? What?
The whiners ...[text shortened]... becomes "entitled" to participate politically, e.g.
criticize and propose the status quo ?
Originally posted by scacchipazzoA legalistic approach is valid and respectable, indeed.
Look at palynka's answer. I feel the same way. That said, I disapprove of mistreatment of anyone for the mere fact of status. They seem to do well enough amongst themselves in mistreating each other badly. If whites treated browns they way they do one another there would be widespread rioting!
So when a person holds the passport of a country, then that person is
a full recipient of the same rights and obligations as any other citizen, regardless
of age, sex, ethnicity, political or individual orientation, etc. And the
rights include of course to criticize the status quo, pee on the flag, wave another
flag, profess and promote any religion, demand stuff from the elected
representatives, and a long list of etceteras... within the legal channels, of course.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by SeitseIm not sure what this thread's debate actually is.
I think we are debating something else here.
is the debate based around your original question "When does a person become of one country?"
is it about utherpendragon's thread on illegals?
or is it about immigrants having the right to whine?