Where is the cry to get out of Iraq?

Originally posted by generalissimo
How do you have so much info on the performance of the US army?

don't you know anything about guerrila war?

Ask her how indonesia was freed up from the Japanese?

Originally posted by generalissimo
How do you have so much info on the performance of the US army?

don't you know anything about guerrila war?

This inadvertantly pertinent question ought to have been addressed to utherpendragon, not me.

Originally posted by FMF
This inadvertantly pertinent question ought to have been addressed to utherpendragon, not me.

my credentials have already been stated ,what are yours?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Ask her how indonesia was freed up from the Japanese?

What's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?

The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore the White Man thing. And then the Dutch. By 1949 the Indonesians had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
my credentials have already been stated ,what are yours?

Credentials? Are you kidding? Your imbecility and loutish incoherence are well "stated" here, without any help from others. What licence do you claim these "credentials" grant you?

Originally posted by FMF
What's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?

The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore ...[text shortened]... had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.

they declared their independence after the surrender,my point exactly. And why did Japan surrender? Who crushed Japan? If this did not happen indonesia would never have been free from Japan.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
they declared their independence after the surrender,my point exactly. And why did Japan surrender? Who crushed Japan? If this did not happen indonesia would never have been free from Japan.

Oh really? Like NEVER, eh?

Wow.

But what's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?

Originally posted by FMF
What's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?

The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore ...[text shortened]... had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.

what poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.

Originally posted by FMF
Oh really? Like NEVER, eh?

Wow.

But what's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?

No,never.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
what poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.

Well, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.

The U.S. Military did not perform bad,and vets from any foreign war have nothing to be ashamed of nor to apologize for,especially vietnam.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.

Were you in Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?

How do you know so much about the US army's performance? do you think the indonesian army would have done a better job?

Originally posted by generalissimo
Were you in Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?

How do you know so much about the US army's performance? do you think the indonesian army would have done a better job?

Excellent points. EXCELLENT points, generalissimo. Bravo.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
The U.S. Military did not perform bad,and vets from any foreign war have nothing to be ashamed of nor to apologize for,especially vietnam.

By your own admission the U.S. militray is unable to fight the wars its civilian masters ask it to. Whose wars do you suggest the U.S. militray fight?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
what poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.

You're still not getting it.

Since the end of WWII, most warfare has taken an asymmetrical/unconventional form, and this, rather than this 'total war' nonsense, seems likely to be the pattern for the foreseeable future. You'd think somebody, somewhere would start to reorganise things in the face of this reality, rather than continuing to prepare for your 'total war' (which even Clauswitz realised was nonsense anyway.)

Whether the US military's woeful lack of preparedness for this empirical reality is the fault of the military leadership or their civilian masters matters not. The debacles in Korea, Vietnam and, latterly, Iraq are evidence for this lack of preparedness, and point towards a future (given the apparent unwillingness to learn from mistakes) where this will happen again.

So it still doesn't matter who's calling the shots when we speak of poor performance; all that you are offering are paltry excuses for that poor performance.

And I, at least, didn't even think to ask who was calling the shorts when I spoke of serious tactical and strategic miscalculations in the run-up to war, in the execution of war and then in the occupation. Because, for the purposes of spotting a pig's ear, it really doesn't matter who you subsequently wish to blame for that.