Originally posted by utherpendragonWhat's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?
Ask her how indonesia was freed up from the Japanese?
The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore the White Man thing. And then the Dutch. By 1949 the Indonesians had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.
Originally posted by FMFthey declared their independence after the surrender,my point exactly. And why did Japan surrender? Who crushed Japan? If this did not happen indonesia would never have been free from Japan.
What's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?
The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore ...[text shortened]... had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.
Originally posted by utherpendragonOh really? Like NEVER, eh?
they declared their independence after the surrender,my point exactly. And why did Japan surrender? Who crushed Japan? If this did not happen indonesia would never have been free from Japan.
Wow.
But what's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?
Originally posted by FMFwhat poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.
What's this got to do with the U.S. military's poor performance since 1945?
The Indonesians secured their own independence from the Japanese, as you well know. Two days after the Japanese surrender in the Pacific, Indonesia declared independence on 17th August 1945. More Indonesians died in WW2 than Americans. The British came for a while and tried to restore ...[text shortened]... had won their liberty at considerable cost. Got to be a story to make American patriots proud.
Originally posted by utherpendragonWell, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.
what poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.
Originally posted by FMFThe U.S. Military did not perform bad,and vets from any foreign war have nothing to be ashamed of nor to apologize for,especially vietnam.
Well, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.
Originally posted by FMFWere you in Korea? Vietnam? Iraq?
Well, well. The Patriot distancing himself from the poor performance of the U.S. military yet again, rather like a snakey politician. Has to be said.
How do you know so much about the US army's performance? do you think the indonesian army would have done a better job?
Originally posted by utherpendragonBy your own admission the U.S. militray is unable to fight the wars its civilian masters ask it to. Whose wars do you suggest the U.S. militray fight?
The U.S. Military did not perform bad,and vets from any foreign war have nothing to be ashamed of nor to apologize for,especially vietnam.
Originally posted by utherpendragonYou're still not getting it.
what poor performance? Vietnam,Korea? That was all politicians.The military has done a outstanding job even w/one hand tied behind their backs thanks to the interference from D.C.
Since the end of WWII, most warfare has taken an asymmetrical/unconventional form, and this, rather than this 'total war' nonsense, seems likely to be the pattern for the foreseeable future. You'd think somebody, somewhere would start to reorganise things in the face of this reality, rather than continuing to prepare for your 'total war' (which even Clauswitz realised was nonsense anyway.)
Whether the US military's woeful lack of preparedness for this empirical reality is the fault of the military leadership or their civilian masters matters not. The debacles in Korea, Vietnam and, latterly, Iraq are evidence for this lack of preparedness, and point towards a future (given the apparent unwillingness to learn from mistakes) where this will happen again.
So it still doesn't matter who's calling the shots when we speak of poor performance; all that you are offering are paltry excuses for that poor performance.
And I, at least, didn't even think to ask who was calling the shorts when I spoke of serious tactical and strategic miscalculations in the run-up to war, in the execution of war and then in the occupation. Because, for the purposes of spotting a pig's ear, it really doesn't matter who you subsequently wish to blame for that.