Go back
White house urges to permit torture.

White house urges to permit torture.

Debates

f

Netherlands

Joined
09 Sep 03
Moves
4786
Clock
13 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

From the NY Times, january 13,

"At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/politics/13intel.html?hp&ex=1105678800&en=358e4a1dfc40b382&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Extreme interrogation? Torture they mean.
Any comment?

Greetings
Fjord

t
True X X Xian

The Lord's Army

Joined
18 Jul 04
Moves
8353
Clock
13 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by fjord
From the NY Times, january 13,

"At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/politics/13intel.html?hp&ex=1105678800& ...[text shortened]... &partner=homepage

Extreme interrogation? Torture they mean.
Any comment?

Greetings
Fjord
Typical and pathetic. Where are all of those "moral values" voters?

s
Red Republican

Auckland

Joined
08 Jun 03
Moves
6680
Clock
14 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by fjord
From the NY Times, january 13,

"At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/politics/13intel.html?hp&ex=1105678800& ...[text shortened]... &partner=homepage

Extreme interrogation? Torture they mean.
Any comment?

Greetings
Fjord
It will get a lot nastier as the US becomes more desperate.

s

England

Joined
15 Nov 03
Moves
33497
Clock
14 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

truth being the first to suffer

m
Look, it's a title!

Run, it's offensive!

Joined
26 Aug 04
Moves
3708
Clock
14 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Well, if the USA accepts torture as a means of law to get ahead in life, then inevitably, in the long run, the USA will suffer more then the people being tortured.

f

Netherlands

Joined
09 Sep 03
Moves
4786
Clock
14 Jan 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by mateulose
Well, if the USA accepts torture as a means of law to get ahead in life, then inevitably, in the long run, the USA will suffer more then the people being tortured.


That is a philosophical way of looking at it. But there are two real problems.
Torture is an immoral and inhumane act. If the strongest country in our world will use it as an instrument to find the truth it sets a very bad example for the whole world.
And secondly, with torture you don't get the truth but the story you want to hear. So it can easily lead e.g. to a second WMD-spectacle that is based on sand.

Greetings
Fjord

Brother Edwin
7 edits

The moral highground

Joined
06 May 04
Moves
34658
Clock
14 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Torture should be punishment for crimes.

W
Angler

River City

Joined
08 Dec 04
Moves
16907
Clock
14 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by telerion
Typical and pathetic. Where are all of those "moral values" voters?
They are busy persecuting gays, filmmakers, artists, and family planning agencies. If they had true pro-life values, Bush would be in his final week as President.

i

Felicific Forest

Joined
15 Dec 02
Moves
49429
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down


One question is whether torture is a way to obtain the truth or a way to force people to make statements that you want them to make. There is a difference ....... I guess.

S
BentnevolentDictater

x10,y45,z-88,t3.1415

Joined
26 Jan 03
Moves
1644
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by fjord
From the NY Times, january 13,

"At the urging of the White House, Congressional leaders scrapped a legislative measure last month that would have imposed new restrictions on the use of extreme interrogation measures by American intelligence officers, Congressional officials say."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/politics/13intel.html?hp&ex=1105678800& ...[text shortened]... &partner=homepage

Extreme interrogation? Torture they mean.
Any comment?

Greetings
Fjord
Sure. Whatever works against an enemy with no limits.

Seems reasonable.

Or you are a silly twit with no clue.

Think it through. "If I have an enemy who recognized no limits... what limits shall I recognize? And if I limit myself, what kind of fool am I?"

S
BentnevolentDictater

x10,y45,z-88,t3.1415

Joined
26 Jan 03
Moves
1644
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by ivanhoe

One question is whether torture is a way to obtain the truth or a way to force people to make statements that you want them to make. There is a difference ....... I guess.

My best guess is that torture is the best way to kill your enemy.

But that's just a guess. could be wrong.

SN
Pimp of the elves

San Diego, CA

Joined
17 Mar 04
Moves
65429
Clock
15 Jan 05
1 edit
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
My best guess is that torture is the best way to kill your enemy.

But that's just a guess. could be wrong.
No, a bullet from an M-16 is the best way to kill your enemy.

Torture gets the same result, but costs more taxpayer dollars.

😛

N
The eyes of truth

elsewhere

Joined
26 Apr 04
Moves
21784
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

When you have a country that sings the praises of free democracy and human rights as the basis of it's foundation, you would expect it to actually practice what it preaches.

If we think all people should have the right to an attorney, why not the prisoners in cuba? It seems hypocitical to say that because they are this or that they are not equal, when the very foundation of the gonverment is that all people are created equal.

Thomas Jefferson wrote those words well. He did'nt say all rich white men are created equal, he said all men. He knew one day that those words would be used to change the world. I wonder what he thinks now?

If democracy and human rights are so wonderful and everyone should follow them I say we should lead by example. Torture is wrong people should'nt torture anyone, did'nt we go through this once with vietnam? Are we now stooping to the level of the viet cong, whom we so damned for thier actions?

If everyone should have freedom, and we're actually fighting wars and killing people in our quest for it, how can we possibly say that a person is'nt allowed freedom because they're not a citizen, or a legal combatant, or any other crap the administration can think up.

You can tell a lot about a society by how well they treat thier prisoners.



shavixmir
Lord

Sewers of Holland

Joined
31 Jan 04
Moves
89744
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Sure. Whatever works against an enemy with no limits.

Seems reasonable.

Or you are a silly twit with no clue.

Think it through. "If I have an enemy who recognized no limits... what limits shall I recognize? And if I limit myself, what kind of fool am I?"
So...

I presume any enemy of the US is now thinking: "Hey...they're gonna use torture as a tool...we'd be foolish and unwise not to do like-wise."

If one wants to take the moral high ground, then one cannot tolerate such behaviour in one's own ranks.

s
Red Republican

Auckland

Joined
08 Jun 03
Moves
6680
Clock
15 Jan 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Sure. Whatever works against an enemy with no limits.

Seems reasonable.

Or you are a silly twit with no clue.

Think it through. "If I have an enemy who recognized no limits... what limits shall I recognize? And if I limit myself, what kind of fool am I?"
Saddam had exactly the same viewpoint as you have towards those who opposed him. Perhaps he was a reasonable man after all.

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.