Originally posted by RedmikeYou must be a Muslim to talk that kind of garbage
But when a country aspires to get superior technology, we threaten to bomb them.
And I'd dispute whether the current leadership of the US was free from a dark age theology.
Your argument just doesn't make sense - it is based on the assumption that the west is somehow better than everyone else.
Originally posted by sonhouseYou do realise that the u.s. produce nearly double the nuclear energy that France produce on a yearly basis, right?
You think the waste problem is bad now, wait till the world goes nuclear (fission that is) in a really big way. France is one such country right now, they are too stupid to realize they are sitting on a timebomb of their own making.
Not that I don't agree with what you're saying re nuclear waste, but I'm not sure why you're calling France stupid.
If the u.s. were at all worried about the environment, I'm sure their nuclear production would be much, much higher. As it is, they can keep strip mining mountains for coal and denying the effect of CO2, and denying the existance of global warming.
D
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI am not saying it is. Technology and morality are two separate issues. It may be co-incidence that the West has higher standards of conduct than other countries, but they generally do and please dont bother to site the exceptions.
So...in your view...technical superiority IS moral superiority? Or what? b
All societies tend to be corrupt at times but there are reasons why the rest of the world break their necks to get into a developed western country. Maybe the reasons might be : Christian v Muslim or Democracy v Dictatorships or Capitalist v Communist/Socialist.
Specificially on the issue of Iran having nucluear weapons, Redmike (and Rag also) seems to think that they should have the right to go to the nearest Mall and pick up a couple Nukes. It does not work that way. They have to get the technology from other countries who have doubts as to their ability to possess such weapons and use it responsibility. Iran condemned themselves by their violent conduct and their irresponsibile statemens in the last few years. Remember the 'wipe Israel off the map' comment ?
Originally posted by RagnorakI am referring specifically to the statement by Redmike that the West does not want to allow other countries to possess superior weapons technology. Only a muslim (or a supporter) will think it wise to increase the firepower of a muslim state.
I'd like to see the analytical reasoning behind that statement.
D
9/11, all the other suicide bombings all over the world, the recent violence over the cartoons are examples of their violent nature.
They dont deserve to own any weapons .. period! not even a sharpened kitchen knife.
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Western nations do not trust the Iranian government with nuclear weapons. And why should they? They have been supporters of international terrorism. What is to say that they will not pass on weapons to Hamas or some other terrorist organization? They already give Hamas money, so why not a bomb? So in the end I justify it in self-defense or ourself and allies.
Again I'm not calling for an invasion, but a series of calucated air strikes, because so-called talks will not work.
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't think anyone should have nuclear weapons.
I am referring specifically to the statement by Redmike that the West does not want to allow other countries to possess superior weapons technology. Only a muslim (or a supporter) will think it wise to increase the firepower of a muslim state.
9/11, all the other suicide bombings all over the world, the recent violence over the cartoons are examples of t ...[text shortened]... t nature.
They dont deserve to own any weapons .. period! not even a sharpened kitchen knife.
I just think it is hypocritical in the extreme for the US to appoint itself the world's police force, and for the US and the West to think they have the moral right to dictate to other nations.
The US supposedly supprts the spread of democracy, but they think they can use force to control a democratically elected government. And not for the first time.
It shouldn't matter whether the other countuies are Muslim, Christian or whatever (though it seems to help if they are Jewish - then it is ok to have WMDs - in fact we'll suplpy them and fund them).
The same rules should apply to all countries equally.
How this makes me a mulsim is just beyond belief.
Originally posted by evilpiagetA bit like the US and israel - they already gave them money, and they helped them get nukes.
Western nations do not trust the Iranian government with nuclear weapons. And why should they? They have been supporters of international terrorism. What is to say that they will not pass on weapons to Hamas or some other terrorist organization? They already give Hamas money, so why not a bomb? So in the end I justify it in self-defense or ourself and ...[text shortened]... for an invasion, but a series of calucated air strikes, because so-called talks will not work.
Double standards.
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Originally posted by evilpiageta few cruise missles and bombing strikes may knock out some of iran's more obvious facilities, but in the end it is only going to reinforce their felt need to arm themselves against american hostility. right now, according to a bbc interview series anyway, many iranians in the street don't see the need for nuclear weapons but they do want nuclear energy. if we start bombing them, the resulting collateral damage may convince iranians that they do need such weapons. but even if they did get nukes, it's not likely that they would use them on anybody except in defense. they are probably uncomfortable with the fact that we gave nukes to israel. who wouldn't feel threatened in their situation? bullying other countries sometimes works, and is fairly easy when you're the biggest and strongest, but this doesn't mean that it is the best way.
Western nations do not trust the Iranian government with nuclear weapons. And why should they? They have been supporters of international terrorism. What is to say that they will not pass on weapons to Hamas or some other terrorist organization? They already give Hamas money, so why not a bomb? So in the end I justify it in self-defense or ourself and for an invasion, but a series of calucated air strikes, because so-called talks will not work.
Originally posted by RedmikeYou seem to be an intelligent guy but some of your comments are childish. Like :
I don't think anyone should have nuclear weapons.
I just think it is hypocritical in the extreme for the US to appoint itself the world's police force, and for the US and the West to think they have the moral right to dictate to other nations.
The US supposedly supprts the spread of democracy, but they think they can use force to control a democratica ...[text shortened]... should apply to all countries equally.
How this makes me a mulsim is just beyond belief.
"I don't think anyone should have nuclear weapons." The world does .. get over it. And it belongs to the countries that had the tech and the know how to develop it. It DOES NOT belong to every Tom Dick and Harry. Its like you think it should be shared equally .. let every crook and terrorist have a share in the firepower... NFW !
You might think the US is hypocritical but its because of countries like the US that people like me and billions all over the world sleep well at night. You figure out why !
It does matter what culture and religion you are. Where have you been in the last few years ? Dont you get it? The West does not trust muslim states or their supporters.
Originally posted by RedmikeAs you said that .. in addition to my previous ppost about who the nukes belong to on this planet .. It belongs to the countries that developed the technology and their alies. Just like how as individuals we share our stuff with friends, nations share their technology with alies. Let Iran and other muslim states go to their friends and beg for nukes. They sure as hell aint getting it from the West. OK Pal ?
A bit like the US and israel - they already gave them money, and they helped them get nukes.
Double standards.
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Originally posted by Rajk999As pets, I have lady bugs, flies, and a few mosquitoes living in jars in my room.
Dont you get it? The West does not trust muslim states or their supporters.
Now let's say that the mosquitoes begin attacking the lady bugs and, while I'm watching and deciding what to do, a few of them die. I'm sure I could have help, but maybe I just wasn't concerned enough.
Now let's say that the mosquitoes begin attacking the flies and, while I'm watching and deciding what to do, a few of them die. I'm sure I could have help, but maybe I just wasn't concerned enough.
Now let's assume that I’ve been adding mosquitoes to my jars, if for no other reason than the fact that I have an iguana that likes mosquitoes and not flies or ladybugs.
Now, let’s say the flies and lady bugs find out and start to hate me. What should they do? If they band together to keep mosquitoes in check, I'll just keep adding mosquitoes.
No, the real solution would be to get me to stop adding mosquitoes.
Unfortunately, I thwart any attempt they make to gain an equal footing in their little jar societies.
At first they communicate on an insect to insect level. But that doesn't work. Everyone knows who's really in charge. So they start fighting.
Then days/weeks/months go by, and the mosquitoes don't get it through their heads. They claim they are victims of their violent insect brethren. Thus, we achieve something that is utmost dangerous.
A war. A war in which both sides claim to be freedom fighters. A war with and end no one wants.
Originally posted by TetsujinYou have a responsibility to look after your pets. The US and the West have no legal or moral duty to provide weapons to anyone (unless they choose to) so that they can win a war. If they want to fight wars let Allah provide them with nukes.
As pets, I have lady bugs, flies, and a few mosquitoes living in jars in my room.
Now let's say that the mosquitoes begin attacking the lady bugs and, while I'm watching and deciding what to do, a few of them die. I'm sure I could have help, but maybe I just wasn't concerned enough.
Now let's say that the mosquitoes begin attacking the flies and, whil ...[text shortened]... ch [b]both sides claim to be freedom fighters. A war with and end no one wants.[/b]