Why even worry about transparency…

@AThousandYoung said
You are mistaken.

From Google AI overview (prompt: locke right to life starving)

In John Locke’s political philosophy, a starving person has a natural right to survival grounded in the right to life, which establishes a moral claim to take surplus resources from others to prevent extreme want.

Locke’s View on Preservation and Starvation

Law of Nature ...[text shortened]... rces while another starves. Withholding vital relief in dire necessity violates natural law.

"As justice gives every man a title to the product of his honest industry, and the fair acquisitions of his ancestors descended to him; so charity gives every man a title to so much out of another’s plenty as will keep him from extreme want, where he has no means to subsist otherwise: and a man can no more justly make use of another’s necessity to force him to become his vassal, by with-holding that relief God requires him to afford to the wants of his brother, than he that has more strength can seize upon a weaker, master him to his obedience, and with a dagger at his throat offer him death or slavery."

First Treatise of Government, Section 42

https://nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke/documents/first-treatise-of-government.html

@no1marauder said
"As justice gives every man a title to the product of his honest industry, and the fair acquisitions of his ancestors descended to him; so charity gives every man a title to so much out of another’s plenty as will keep him from extreme want, where he has no means to subsist otherwise: and a man can no more justly make use of another’s necessity to force him to beco ...[text shortened]... ment, Section 42

https://nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke/documents/first-treatise-of-government.html

Please save the Hi-brow stuff. We are all sure that it is true, but it's a little irrelevant in our fun discussions.

This will make it fun again.
Suppose you have no Firewood and I have spent the day cutting enough wood to heat my house. Do you have a right to live?? yes you do. Does that automatically give you the right to take my Firewood because you need to stay warm? That is a very question. We are debating

@AThousandYoung said
You are mistaken.

From Google AI overview (prompt: locke right to life starving)

In John Locke’s political philosophy, a starving person has a natural right to survival grounded in the right to life, which establishes a moral claim to take surplus resources from others to prevent extreme want.

Locke’s View on Preservation and Starvation

Law of Nature ...[text shortened]... rces while another starves. Withholding vital relief in dire necessity violates natural law.

Locke and surplus resources........... Yes, all sounds about right, and throw in our brother's keeper , but noe of that is the question, is it?

Let's try this. You are apparently saying that whatever I need, I am entitled to make someone else produce it for me. That is really what you and Marauder are saying, as you unrealistically leave it just hanging there. Here are some Brass Tacks:

I have 20 fish and you're starving. There's an argument that I have a moral obligation to give you some fish. That is where you are with locke and marauder. But what if I have no fish but I know how to fish. Does your right to live entitle you to my labor catching fish for you?
Or what if you need a house… Does your right to live entitled to the carpenters labor building you a house?
What if I need medical care? Does my right to live entitled me to the doctors labor, regardless of whether the doctor agrees? You and Marauder will wrestle with that one.
What if I need food tomorrow. Does that entitle you to someone continuing labor producing my food?
This all bespeaks, my original arguments, which you people will dance around until you are blue in the feet.

@AverageJoe1 said
Please save the Hi-brow stuff. We are all sure that it is true, but it's a little irrelevant in our fun discussions.

This will make it fun again.
Suppose you have no Firewood and I have spent the day cutting enough wood to heat my house. Do you have a right to live?? yes you do. Does that automatically give you the right to take my Firewood because you need to stay warm? That is a very question. We are debating

Is there another tree? Can I cut it down to get my own firewood?

@AverageJoe1 said
Locke and surplus resources........... Yes, all sounds about right, and throw in our brother's keeper , but noe of that is the question, is it?

Let's try this. You are apparently saying that whatever I need, I am entitled to make someone else produce it for me. That is really what you and Marauder are saying, as you unrealistically leave it just hanging there. Here ar ...[text shortened]... bespeaks, my original arguments, which you people will dance around until you are blue in the feet.

Is this just another "taxation is theft" argument?

We've wasted hundreds of threads on those.

EDIT: Pursue this is the other thread. It's off-topic here and I'm not going to keep posting about the same thing in two different threads.

@no1marauder said
Is there another tree? Can I cut it down to get my own firewood?

OFF TOPIC!!!!! 😀 gdnight

@no1marauder said
"As justice gives every man a title to the product of his honest industry, and the fair acquisitions of his ancestors descended to him; so charity gives every man a title to so much out of another’s plenty as will keep him from extreme want, where he has no means to subsist otherwise: and a man can no more justly make use of another’s necessity to force him to beco ...[text shortened]... ment, Section 42

https://nlnrac.org/earlymodern/locke/documents/first-treatise-of-government.html

For those who espouse our "Judeo-Christian culture" (which is nonsense but whatever) it's in Leviticus 19:9-10 too.

@no1marauder said
Is this just another "taxation is theft" argument?

We've wasted hundreds of threads on those.

EDIT: Pursue this is the other thread. It's off-topic here and I'm not going to keep posting about the same thing in two different threads.

Let's do this. I'm sleepy, but my question was intended to get to the foundation of the socialist arguument. When does another persons need become a legitimate claim on the product of my labor? If Society can say that because you need what I produce, that you are entitled to it, then society must have some justification for taking or directing the fruits of my labor towards you.
That is it. This is a straight out good question, and isnteac of answeriing you throw cannnon fodder everywhere. Capitalism, profits taxes, Locke natural, Law, government programs, all of it.
Where in the heck does moral authority come from to convert Someone else's need into someone else's obligation? Obligation to produce for instance. This is the fundamental philosophical question I was trying to expose. I'm not saying that every form of helping th needy is socialism nor am I saying that charity is wrong.

@AverageJoe1 said
Let's do this. I'm sleepy, but my question was intended to get to the foundation of the socialist arguument. When does another persons need become a legitimate claim on the product of my labor? If Society can say that because you need what I produce, that you are entitled to it, then society must have some justification for taking or directing the fruits of my labor to ...[text shortened]... m not saying that every form of helping th needy is socialism nor am I saying that charity is wrong.

Locke would say from God.

I'd say from our nature. We're empathic social animals.

EDIT: It's an evolutionary trait found in many species. https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/do-all-animals-have-empathy

@no1marauder said
Locke would say from God.

I'd say from our nature. We're empathic social animals.

EDIT: It's an evolutionary trait found in many species. https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/do-all-animals-have-empathy

Your posts suck

@AverageJoe1 said
Your posts suck

Your lack of education sucks.

Finish high school and get back to me.

@AverageJoe1 said
You say in your first sentence that govt officials should work for 'the public good', and not look after their own prosperity.

Pitiful socialist. When AOC is president, she will make $400k a year, spend some of it, and maybe save $800K over 4 years in a savings account drawing 1.2%. After she leaves office, she will have accrued no growth through investments.

Sq ...[text shortened]... myself, seeing everyone makes their own pie, so I will regard any answer with a huge grain of salt.

Except that you do not agree that the position of President should be a position of public service and not an avenue for continued mandatory tribute.

This makes any argument you could make to the contrary highly suspect.