Will trident lead to an independant Scotland?

Will trident lead to an independant Scotland?

Debates

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Lord

Sewers of Holland

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31 Jan 04
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14 Mar 07

I was just reading a BBC article and it suggested that the vote in Britain today to renew Trident (millions of pounds worth) was opposed by most Scottish MP's.

Labour are already looking pretty bleak in Scotland as they become ever more integral with the conservative party.

Is this gonna be the nail in the coffin of the Union?

R
Godless Commie

Glasgow

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14 Mar 07

Originally posted by shavixmir
I was just reading a BBC article and it suggested that the vote in Britain today to renew Trident (millions of pounds worth) was opposed by most Scottish MP's.

Labour are already looking pretty bleak in Scotland as they become ever more integral with the conservative party.

Is this gonna be the nail in the coffin of the Union?
It is certainly another reason why people might support independence.

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14 Mar 07

Originally posted by shavixmir
I was just reading a BBC article and it suggested that the vote in Britain today to renew Trident (millions of pounds worth) was opposed by most Scottish MP's.

Labour are already looking pretty bleak in Scotland as they become ever more integral with the conservative party.

Is this gonna be the nail in the coffin of the Union?
Let's hope so.

R
Godless Commie

Glasgow

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14 Mar 07

If Trident is such a good idea for the UK, presumably they'll put it on the Thames when it can't go up the road from my house.....

No Name Maddox

County Doledrum

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14 Mar 07

I don't think Scotland needs another issue to see it on the way. Trident is such an appallingly stupid waste of money that even some Conservatives are unconvinced. We're paying trillions and giving the Foreign Office to the United States (or rather, letting them keep it) in return for an "independent deterrent" we can't use without their approval. We need to either develop the technology independently or grow a brain.

S

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14 Mar 07
1 edit

Well we certainly can't use the old non-proliferation argument against Iran & co. now we're gearing up for next gen nukes!

By how much does the economy of the UK as a whole subsidise Scotland?

M
Steamin transies

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14 Mar 07

Originally posted by Redmike
If Trident is such a good idea for the UK, presumably they'll put it on the Thames when it can't go up the road from my house.....
I must be missing something. What is Trident?

I know what a Trident is here, but that can't be what you're talking. Can it?

Forum Vampire

Sidmouth, Uk

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14 Mar 07

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
Well we certainly can't use the old non-proliferation argument against Iran & co. now we're gearing up for next gen nukes!

By how much does the economy of the UK as a whole subsidise Scotland?
Surely the oil in the north sea counteracts that.

S

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14 Mar 07

Originally posted by Diet Coke
Surely the oil in the north sea counteracts that.
It's impossible to say, because North Sea oil provides long-term revenue & you can't say what the needs of subsidies for Scotland would be in the future or the price of crude.
I do know that Scotland is heavily subsidised at the moment & having Scottish MP's voting both in Westminster & in their own parliament makes no sense.

s

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15 Mar 07

The stuff about Scotland being subsidised is a pack of lies.

They come out with this stupid report every year called GERS that says that Scotland is subsidised by £XX billion over the past year. The report was introduced by the Tory government as a propaganda exercise after they had been humiliated in parliament after having to admit that, in 1997, that Scotland had contributed £27bn more than she had received back since the Tory government had come to power in 1979 (after having told us the opposite and lied about it for years). The report doesn't even include oil revenues or lots of other important factors - any competent economist will realise that. The SNP have produced figures that show that Scotland is subsidising the UK.

Even if Scotland *was* running a fiscal deficit, they can't be subsidised by England because England herself is running a massive deficit...... In fact, *most* countries in the World spend more money than they have. So trying to portray Scotland as being some kind of economic basket-case just doesn't wash.

s

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15 Mar 07

BTW, the quisling Gordon Brown criticised the SNP for basing their calculations on oil being worth $60 a barrel..... but Gordon Brown's treasury had used the exact same price for their UK economic projections.

People seem to be under the impression that, because Brown is Scottish, he cares more about Scotland. He doesn't. He's a careerist scumbag like all the others in the Labour Party.

And those Scots MPs who voted against Trident tonight - if they had *real* principles, they would have left the Labour Party long ago.

R
Godless Commie

Glasgow

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15 Mar 07
1 edit

Originally posted by Merk
I must be missing something. What is Trident?

I know what a Trident is here, but that can't be what you're talking. Can it?
It is the UK's nuclear missile carrying submarine system.

There's just been a vote in the commons to upgrade it.

One part of the arguement is that it is based in Scotland (about 20 minutes from my front door), and more than half the Scottish MPs voted against it. Yet we'll still get it.

The point is that this will encourage an independent Scotland.

Which is a good thing.

The specific point I'm making is that if it is such a good idea to upgrade the subs and missiles, they should stick it in the Thames.

s
Democracy Advocate

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15 Mar 07

Originally posted by Redmike
It is the UK's nuclear missile carrying submarine system.

There's just been a vote in the commons to upgrade it.

One part of the arguement is that it is based in Scotland (about 20 minutes from my front door), and more than half the Scottish MPs voted against it. Yet we'll still get it.

The point is that this will encourage an independent Scotland. ...[text shortened]... it is such a good idea to upgrade the subs and missiles, they should stick it in the Thames.
Now, what exactly is your objection to having an upgraded nuclear deterrent in your backyard? (Go ahead, Redmike, swing for the fence! Or I guess that translates as, "knock 'em for 6"😉

R
Godless Commie

Glasgow

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15 Mar 07

Originally posted by spruce112358
Now, what exactly is your objection to having an upgraded nuclear deterrent in your backyard? (Go ahead, Redmike, swing for the fence! Or I guess that translates as, "knock 'em for 6"😉
It isn't about whether it is upgraded - we just shouldn't have one at all.

You'll not be surprised to hear that I'm for the UK, or an independent Scotland at least, unilaterally getting rid of any nuclear missiles we have.

They serve no purpose, they're immoral and illegal.

No nation can call itself civilised while it has weapons capable of wiping out millions of human beings.

M
Steamin transies

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15 Mar 07

Originally posted by Redmike
It is the UK's nuclear missile carrying submarine system.

There's just been a vote in the commons to upgrade it.

One part of the arguement is that it is based in Scotland (about 20 minutes from my front door), and more than half the Scottish MPs voted against it. Yet we'll still get it.

The point is that this will encourage an independent Scotland. ...[text shortened]... it is such a good idea to upgrade the subs and missiles, they should stick it in the Thames.
Yep. It's what I thought. I suppose it seems like no big deal top me because we have something like 14 Ohio class boomers.

As for where it's put, it shouldn't spend much time at home. Does this thing spend a lot of time in dock or something?