Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
    Pawn Whisperer
    My Kingdom fora Pawn
    Joined
    09 Jan '19
    Moves
    8894
    16 Feb '21 00:551 edit
    Woke teachers want Shakespeare cut from curriculum: 'This is about White supremacy'

    The crown teachers once put on William Shakespeare now lies uneasy upon his head as the English playwright comes under assault from teachers who fault his unwoke attitudes regarding race, sexuality, gender and class.

    For the new breed of teachers, Shakespeare is seen less as an icon of literature and more as a tool of imperial oppression, an author who should be dissected in class or banished from the curriculum entirely.

    “This is about white supremacy and colonization,” declared the
    teachers who founded #DisruptTexts, a group that wants staples of
    Western literature removed or subjected to withering criticism.


    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/15/woke-teachers-want-shakespeare-cut-curriculum-abou/
    --------------------------------------------------

    “This is about white supremacy and colonization,” - really?!

    Although the UK had indentured servants going back to Roman times, the international slave trade
    did not take off until the colonization of the Americas, by which time, Shakespeare was dead.

    William Shakespeare, Lived: 1564 - 1616

    "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, USSR secret police
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '21 01:50
    @earl-of-trumps said
    Woke teachers want Shakespeare cut from curriculum: 'This is about White supremacy'

    [i]The crown teachers once put on William Shakespeare now lies uneasy upon his head as the English playwright comes under assault from teachers who fault his unwoke attitudes regarding race, sexuality, gender and class.

    For the new breed of teachers, Shakespeare is seen les ...[text shortened]... - 1616

    "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, USSR secret police
    The 'Washington Times' is a hard right-wing propaganda organ with a long record of falsehoods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times

    "The Washington Times was founded on May 17, 1982, by Unification movement
    leader Sun Myung Moon and owned until 2010 by News World Communications,
    an international media conglomerate founded by Moon. It is currently owned by
    Operations Holdings, which is a part of the Unification movement.[4][5]

    Throughout its history, The Washington Times has been known for its conservative
    political stance,[6][7][8][9] supporting the policies of Republican presidents
    Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, and Donald Trump.[10][11]

    The Washington Times has published many columns which reject the scientific consensus on
    climate change,[12][13][14] on ozone depletion,[15] and on the harmful effects of second-hand smoke.[16][17]
    It has been accused of publishing racist content including conspiracy theories about
    U.S. President Barack Obama,[18][19] supporting neo-Confederate historical
    revisionism,[20][21] and promoting Islamophobia.[22]."

    It sounds like Earl of Trumps's favorite kind of source.
  3. Joined
    20 Oct '06
    Moves
    8642
    16 Feb '21 02:51
    @earl-of-trumps said
    Woke teachers want Shakespeare cut from curriculum: 'This is about White supremacy'

    [i]The crown teachers once put on William Shakespeare now lies uneasy upon his head as the English playwright comes under assault from teachers who fault his unwoke attitudes regarding race, sexuality, gender and class.

    For the new breed of teachers, Shakespeare is seen les ...[text shortened]... - 1616

    "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, USSR secret police
    can we agree these people are crazy vocal minorities and stop amplifying their message?
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    At the Bar
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    41688
    16 Feb '21 03:28
    @earl-of-trumps said
    Woke teachers want Shakespeare cut from curriculum: 'This is about White supremacy'

    [i]The crown teachers once put on William Shakespeare now lies uneasy upon his head as the English playwright comes under assault from teachers who fault his unwoke attitudes regarding race, sexuality, gender and class.

    For the new breed of teachers, Shakespeare is seen les ...[text shortened]... - 1616

    "Show me the man, I'll show you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, USSR secret police
    Instead of your typically hysterical exaggerations and overreaction based on articles in right wing propaganda rags, going to the source might be more useful:

    "Overall, we continue to affirm that there is an over-saturation of Shakespeare in our schools and that many teachers continue to unnecessarily place him on a pedestal as a paragon of what all language should be. Though we enjoy reading some of the plots in his plays and acknowledge the depth and complexity within many of his plot arcs and characters, we also find that educators are often taught to see Shakespearean plays as near perfection, his characters as “archetypes”, and to persist in oj indoctrinating students into a false notion of the primacy (and superiority) of the English language.

    We do not see these same problematic approaches in other plays where whiteness and the male voice are not centered. The more we learn alongside teachers who are disrupting texts, the more we move away from continuing to give space to these voices; the more we want to decenter the male white voices completely, knowing that our students will read/hear of them before and after their time in our courses is over.

    Furthermore, there are schools where Shakespeare is required every year, while no other author is required to be studied in such a pervasive way. Many teachers explain that he and his plays are “universal” and that “one cannot go a day without seeing a reference to Shakespeare in popular culture.” People can also argue that one cannot go a day without seeing biblical references in our popular culture. In fact, Shakespeare makes biblical references, and yet, we don’t teach the Bible each year. English classes (generally speaking) don’t require the Bible as one of the texts in its course curriculum. So, let us be honest, the conversation really isn’t about universality, nor and this isn’t about being equipped to identify all possible cultural references. This is about an ingrained and internalized elevation of Shakespeare in a way that excludes other voices. This is about white supremacy and colonization.

    Considering the violence, misogyny, racism, and more that we encounter in Shakespearean texts, we offer up the notion that we can open our minds and classrooms to texts that celebrate the voices and lives of marginalized people, speak to the students in front of us, and reflect a better society. We can do this by achieving balance and greater inclusion with the examples of excellence we place before students and by applying a forward-facing, critical lens, to these works. It is also imperative that we reflect and act to correct the messages educators and school systems send children about whose language is superior, whose stories are “universal”, and whose history should be carried into the future by means of remaining in the literary canon and thus, our societal collective consciousness."

    https://disrupttexts.org/2018/10/25/5-disrupting-shakespeare/

    Sounds reasonable to me.
  5. Subscribershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    69371
    16 Feb '21 04:42
    @no1marauder said
    Instead of your typically hysterical exaggerations and overreaction based on articles in right wing propaganda rags, going to the source might be more useful:

    "Overall, we continue to affirm that there is an over-saturation of Shakespeare in our schools and that many teachers continue to unnecessarily place him on a pedestal as a paragon of what all language should be. ...[text shortened]... sness."

    https://disrupttexts.org/2018/10/25/5-disrupting-shakespeare/

    Sounds reasonable to me.
    Mhmmm... would you expect texts from 400 years ago (the reign of Elizabeth I; not known as a peaceful society... especially if you were Catholic) to be “woke”?

    You have to place Shakespeare into context. He was to the 17th century what Stephen King is to us. With one very major exception: there weren’t millions of published writers back then. So what he did stuck out.

    To suggest that extra attention not be paid to the Bible, The Iliad or Shakespeare is ignoring the cultural significance and impact of literature.

    So many references on a daily basis come from these 3 sources, you have to heed attention to them.

    Take Romeo and Juliet.
    From West Side Story to Grease... all based along this tale.

    English words attributed to Shakespeare?
    Alligator, bedroom, kissing, downstairs, gossip, etc. More than 1500 words!

    But, it’s a brave new world (Shakespeare) and what’s done is done (Shakespeare) so I’ll wear my heart upon my sleeve (Shakespeare) and because the world is my Oyster (Shakespeare), I have to admit it’s all Greek to me (Shakespeare) and I will leave you to your wild goose-chase (Shakespeare).
  6. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
    Pawn Whisperer
    My Kingdom fora Pawn
    Joined
    09 Jan '19
    Moves
    8894
    16 Feb '21 05:56
    @Duchess64 - The 'Washington Times' is a hard right-wing propaganda organ with a long record of falsehoods.

    Nice deflection, Duchess64... NOT

    Shooting the messenger does not disappear what the WOKE fabricators said.
    Figures, - you'd run to the side of and protect anyone pillorying a white male icon.
  7. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
    Pawn Whisperer
    My Kingdom fora Pawn
    Joined
    09 Jan '19
    Moves
    8894
    16 Feb '21 06:02
    @wildgrass said
    can we agree these people are crazy vocal minorities and stop amplifying their message?
    No.. because they do great harm to innocent people and they will continue to.

    funny, wildgrass, you object to me WAKING people to the deeds of the fraudsters
    but you don't really seem to mind the fraudsters propelling damaging fake news
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '21 06:02
    @earl-of-trumps said
    @Duchess64 - The 'Washington Times' is a hard right-wing propaganda organ with a long record of falsehoods.

    Nice deflection, Duchess64... NOT

    Shooting the messenger does not disappear what the WOKE fabricators said.
    Figures, - you'd run to the side of and protect anyone pillorying a white male icon.
    "Instead of your typically hysterical exaggerations and overreaction based on articles
    in *right wing propaganda rags*, going to the source might be more useful."
    --No1Marauder (to Earl of Trumps)
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '21 06:102 edits
    @shavixmir said
    Mhmmm... would you expect texts from 400 years ago (the reign of Elizabeth I; not known as a peaceful society... especially if you were Catholic) to be “woke”?

    You have to place Shakespeare into context. He was to the 17th century what Stephen King is to us. With one very major exception: there weren’t millions of published writers back then. So what he did stuck out.
    ...[text shortened]... dmit it’s all Greek to me (Shakespeare) and I will leave you to your wild goose-chase (Shakespeare).
    Read properly, Shakespeare is not a 'safe space' for fragile readers who are easily offended.
    Reading and understanding Shakespeare requires a level of maturity.
    He wrote a long narrative poem called 'The Rape of Lucrece'.
    Should we introduce children to Shakespeare through 'Titus Andronicus' ?

    As I recall, some Jewish organizations have called for the 'Merchant of Venice' to
    be banned in schools because it has one character who may be an anti-Jewish stereotype.

    I was taken aback when I met white American undergraduates who believed that
    Shakespeare could be really understood only by white people, not by anyone else.
    Their argument was "Shakespeare was white, so if you are not white, you cannot understand him."
    I replied, "Shakespeare was English, and you are not English, so, by your tribal 'logic',
    you cannot understand him."
  10. Subscribershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    69371
    16 Feb '21 06:161 edit
    @duchess64 said
    Read properly, Shakespeare is not a 'safe space' for fragile readers who are easily offended.
    Reading and understanding Shakespeare requires a level of maturity.

    As I recall, some Jewish organizations have called for the 'Merchant of Venice' NOT
    to be used in schools because it has one character who's allegedly an anti-Jewish stereotype.

    I was taken aback when I me ...[text shortened]... peare was English, and you are not English, so, by your tribal 'logic',
    you cannot understand him."
    I’m not in favour of safe spaces in education.
    History isn’t a safe place. Never was, never will be.

    And as far as I’m concerned, people wanting safe places are suffering from Western privilege: they have no idea what crap it all once was or the crap a lot of people are still suffering.

    I say force feed the bastards inquistion after invasion after holocaust and they’ll soon realise that Shakespeare isn’t that much of a bloody problem.

    Edit:
    As for people saying Shakespeare is only understandable by white people... good grief!
    Is Homer only understandable by olive coloured people???

    Man oh man. I despair for this bloody planet.
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '21 06:29
    @shavixmir said
    I’m not in favour of safe spaces in education.
    History isn’t a safe place. Never was, never will be.

    And as far as I’m concerned, people wanting safe places are suffering from Western privilege: they have no idea what crap it all once was or the crap a lot of people are still suffering.

    I say force feed the bastards inquistion after invasion after holocaust and they’ ...[text shortened]... mer only understandable by olive coloured people???

    Man oh man. I despair for this bloody planet.
    "I’m not in favour of safe spaces in education. "
    --Shavixmir

    I am in favour of *gradually introducing* children to the risks and perils of reality.

    When I was 12 or 13 years old, I read Shakespeare's 'The Rape of Lucrece' (in English).
    (Would a 21st century writer be bold enough to put 'rape' into the title of his poem?)
    It took some effort for me to understand why the villain was obsessed with raping the
    heroine and why she felt so dishonoured by the rape that she took her own life.
    It was not exactly a nice bedtime story for a parent to read to one's daughter.
  12. Subscribershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    69371
    16 Feb '21 06:36
    @duchess64 said
    "I’m not in favour of safe spaces in education. "
    --Shavixmir

    I am in favour of *gradually introducing* children to the risks and perils of reality.

    When I was 12 or 13 years old, I read Shakespeare's 'The Rape of Lucrece' (in English).
    (Would a 21st century writer be bold enough to put 'rape' into the title of his poem?)
    It took some effort for me to understand w ...[text shortened]... took her own life.
    It was not exactly a nice bedtime story for a parent to read to one's daughter.
    Well, obviously education has to be age appropriate!
    I was thinking of 18+ people wanting a safe space.

    I don’t think force feeding 7 year olds footage of concentration camps is a good thing!

    Maybe I should have made that a bit clearer in my rant...
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    16 Feb '21 06:39
    @shavixmir said
    Well, obviously education has to be age appropriate!
    I was thinking of 18+ people wanting a safe space.

    I don’t think force feeding 7 year olds footage of concentration camps is a good thing!

    Maybe I should have made that a bit clearer in my rant...
    This thread's context was about teaching Shakespeare.
    Shakespeare is routinely taught to students who are younger than 18.
  14. Subscribershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    69371
    16 Feb '21 06:42
    @duchess64 said
    This thread's context was about teaching Shakespeare.
    Shakespeare is routinely taught to students who are younger than 18.
    It’s not like RHP threads to derail though..
  15. SubscriberEarl of Trumps
    Pawn Whisperer
    My Kingdom fora Pawn
    Joined
    09 Jan '19
    Moves
    8894
    16 Feb '21 06:451 edit
    @no1marauder - This is about an ingrained and internalized elevation of Shakespeare in a way that excludes other voices. This is about white supremacy and colonization.
    --------

    So you think if there are more words, it will hide the politically charged words?? Brilliant.
    Nobody in America is teaching white supremacy and colonization, an absurd charge.


    Now let's get down to what the WOKE liars are really doing.

    "... The more we learn alongside teachers who are disrupting texts, the more we move away from continuing to give space to these voices; the more we want to decenter the male white voices completely."

    Going after and targeting white people. Let me put this into context so that you will understand.
    White Supremacists want to decenter the voices of Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcom X, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Rosa Parks, W.E.B. Du Bois, and Barrack Obama so they won't be uppity examples out there for other nigroes to see.

    Jeeez, ya think this might cause problems in America???

    RACISTS, that's who WOKE is.

    Maybe in the end, Shakespeare is taught so frequently because he is a supremist,
    the most supreme writer of the English language.
Back to Top