@averagejoe1 saidI've refuted these points many times before and don't feel like wasting further time on it.
But How much more taxes.? Please see the stats of what is already being paid, you know......the top 1% pay 40.1% of income tax received. The other 90% pay 28.6% The top 1% pay more than SEVEN times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50%.
So tell us, tell us all, how much more should the 1% pay? How bout the middle class? How do you decide who that is?
As to bet ...[text shortened]... ? Can't. We are too busy working hard. Building a country. Strong words for a liberal, I know.
Right wingers love to talk just about Federal Income taxes but the total tax burden of the rich is about the same as everybody else:
"The 400 richest U.S. families now pay a lower overall tax rate than the middle-class, the first time that's happened in 100 years, according to economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman.
Factoring in federal, state and local taxes, those ultra-wealthy households pay a total rate of about 23% — that compares with just over 24% for the bottom half of households."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americas-richest-400-families-pay-a-lower-tax-rate-than-the-middle-class/
There's no compelling evidence that workers making more money has a deleterious effect on the economy and in a country where up to 70% of the GNP is personal consumption, such a claim is counterintuitive at best.
@averagejoe1 said"Please see the stats of what is already being paid, you know......the top 1% pay 40.1% of income tax received"
But How much more taxes.? Please see the stats of what is already being paid, you know......the top 1% pay 40.1% of income tax received. The other 90% pay 28.6% The top 1% pay more than SEVEN times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50%.
So tell us, tell us all, how much more should the 1% pay? How bout the middle class? How do you decide who that is?
As to bet ...[text shortened]... ? Can't. We are too busy working hard. Building a country. Strong words for a liberal, I know.
Taxes should be paid according to one's income. If everybody paid 2 dollars regardless of income no schools or roads would ever be built.
The top 1% should pay 70% marginal tax which is nowhere near what it was under Eisenhower where it was as high as 90%. An era depicted in those old tv shows where one family could afford a house, a car, vacations, sending their children to college all on a single wage working on an assembly line.
The actual american dream. Dead for decades.
"As to better wages, I am sure you are aware of the studies concluding that raising the min wage would have bad consequences, look it up."
Denmark has higher minimum wage and the big mac is like 20 cents more expensive. And if you want people to barely make a living because you can't be bothered to pay 20 cents more on a piece of crap burger, you are a piece of crap yourself.
"And it is laughable that you want workers at McDonalds to have 'living wages' (never been defined by Bernie or anyone), when those are starter jobs"
Flipping burgers at mcDonalds was a starter job in your days, 100 years ago. In present days the average age of mcDonalds employees is over 30.
"No one is expected to Live On McDonalds wages"
We expect it. We demand it. If one gives you 8 hours of labour one should be living a decent life from that. McDonalds and other corporations can afford it.
"Did you hear the there are 8M unfilled jobs?"
So? What do you propose? Round up all unemployed people and just distribute them among those jobs all over the US? Soviet Russia style? I thought you liked freedom. Or are you simply a hypocrite?
What good is a job in another field of expertise? You don't want them to have free education and job training /
What good is a job halfway across the US? You don't want to subsidize affordable housing.
What good is a job that offers worse healthcare than one currently has? You don't want to allow medicare for all, so that moving jobs wouldn't have the added pressure of perhaps downgrading your healthcare plan.
For you it's so simple, isn't it. Uproot your family and just go for one of those magical 8million jobs that are just lying around
@averagejoe1 said"Join an investment club, learn, and then get a person in similar circumstance to join in as partner, maybe buy more than one duplex. "
Join an investment club, learn, and then get a person in similar circumstance to join in as partner, maybe buy more than one duplex. VA loans, FHA, all types of financing. Don't forget the learn part. Or say to hell with it, and do frisbee thing.
Help me here. How can a person who has two jobs barely afford food? I think you misrepresent the facts. If I had two j ...[text shortened]... t. Lost me on that one.
Zahlanzi says US does not have a middle class.
Norway...better 'what?
Grand idea. Guy working 2 jobs to make ends meet, coming home after working 14 hours a day, should just join an investment club. Get another guy working 2 jobs to make ends meet and just pool their resources together and just buy a duplex.
Maybe MORE than a duplex.
"Help me here. "
Not even Jesus can help you anymore
"How can a person who has two jobs barely afford food?"
Because they are both minimum wage jobs.
" If I had two jobs, I could afford food, and maybe a car, and rent. Lost me on that one."
I know i did. That complete lack of empathy coupled with a gross ignorance.
Mean and dumb, what a combo.
"Norway...better 'what?"
In every way.
@averagejoe1 said"In comparative terms, CEOs now make on average 278 times the average worker’s salary, using the options-exercised formula. That’s up from 58 times in 1989 and 20 times in 1965, according to the institute’s figures though, it is down from the 2000 peak of 368 to 1. The total compensation growth since 1978 has outstripped that of the stock market growth of 706.7% and the wages of “very high earners,” which have grown 339.2%."
But How much more taxes.? Please see the stats of what is already being paid, you know......the top 1% pay 40.1% of income tax received. The other 90% pay 28.6% The top 1% pay more than SEVEN times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50%.
So tell us, tell us all, how much more should the 1% pay? How bout the middle class? How do you decide who that is?
As to bet ...[text shortened]... ? Can't. We are too busy working hard. Building a country. Strong words for a liberal, I know.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/ceos-see-pay-grow-1000percent-and-now-make-278-times-the-average-worker.html
McDonald's CEO makes 1189 times what the median worker at the company does.
https://www1.salary.com/MCDONALDS-CORP-Executive-Salaries.html
So yes, the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes and companies can afford to pay higher wages.
@zahlanzi saidFind it interesting that a 30+ yr old works at McDonald for small ($7.95 to $17.00, per internet) wage. He is not my type of guy, not the ones I am writing about. I am talking about people who want to make something of themselves. The 30 tear olds, unless they are managers moving up, need to leave and get a real job. I am sure you will disagree. Gotta go, give me a few hours. That one threw me the most, had to comment. I wouldn't hire someone at 30 who is happy making low wage at Mcdonalds. Or anyone who has been on the $300 govt deal, and won't get off ,, with all the jobs around.
"Join an investment club, learn, and then get a person in similar circumstance to join in as partner, maybe buy more than one duplex. "
Grand idea. Guy working 2 jobs to make ends meet, coming home after working 14 hours a day, should just join an investment club. Get another guy working 2 jobs to make ends meet and just pool their resources together and just buy a duplex. ...[text shortened]... d with a gross ignorance.
Mean and dumb, what a combo.
"Norway...better 'what?"
In every way.
@averagejoe1 saidHere's some typical data:
Find it interesting that a 30+ yr old works at McDonald for small ($7.95 to $17.00, per internet) wage. He is not my type of guy, not the ones I am writing about. I am talking about people who want to make something of themselves. The 30 tear olds, unless they are managers moving up, need to leave and get a real job. I am sure you will disagree. Gotta go, give me a f ...[text shortened]... nalds. Or anyone who has been on the $300 govt deal, and won't get off ,, with all the jobs around.
" There are more than 250,000 jobs available in Tennessee right now, but some lawmakers say there’s a catch with that number.
Only 3% of the jobs posted — about 8,500 as of Friday evening — appear to pay $20,000 or more. "
https://fox17.com/news/local/[WORD TOO LONG]
@no1marauder saidThe poverty line in Tennessee is $26k. Meaning that at many of those jobs, a fully employed worker would STILL be eligible for government benefits.
Here's some typical data:
" There are more than 250,000 jobs available in Tennessee right now, but some lawmakers say there’s a catch with that number.
Only 3% of the jobs posted — about 8,500 as of Friday evening — appear to pay $20,000 or more. "
https://fox17.com/news/local/[WORD TOO LONG]
That's where these modern conservative arguments fall apart. If you're going to get people back to work, you need employers to pay employees enough so they don't remain reliant on the government. Otherwise it's AverageJoe's hard earned tax dollars paying for WalMart employees' groceries.
@wildgrass saidOK. I will go with your social arguements , IF you will tell me how the govt can require a biz owner to pay 'x' amount to workers,, whether they will have to shut down or not. Keep in mind the biz owner has had a 20 year plan to get where he is, took risk, invested his hard earned money, and planned to buy a big house with a swimming pool. Now, he will not meet that dream, fulfill that plan, if the govt steps in and tells him to what they want him to do. If I were the owner, I would sell the biz and start a new life. It would be easy (unless socialism takes over) for me to start a new biz. Since you do not see into this problem, you think it makes perfect sense to tell biz owner to pay a single guy what the govt thinks is 'enough' mmey for him to live on, and also how much to pay his co-worker who has 4 children., how much HE needs to live on. What a can of worms. You make it seem like a simple problem to solve, bleed the biz owners to cover the lives of every employee who comes in the door.
The poverty line in Tennessee is $26k. Meaning that at many of those jobs, a fully employed worker would STILL be eligible for government benefits.
That's where these modern conservative arguments fall apart. If you're going to get people back to work, you need employers to pay employees enough so they don't remain reliant on the government. Otherwise it's AverageJoe's hard earned tax dollars paying for WalMart employees' groceries.
Sure is hard for ole AvJoe to grasp your mindset, it seems so limited, like, you do not see the ramifications of your fairyland thoughts. Like, it is easy to accomplish. Just tell the biz owners how much to pay!!!!!
As to your last para, why would our tax dollars pay for a walmart employee's groceries, and other things that you probably secretly have in mind, like to pay for their kids' college tuition . You imply that we all have a debt or a duty of care to that fella at walmart who apparently did not have a plan, or does not have the gumption to get off his ass and get a better job? Where do you fellers stop with all this...seriously. Unbelievable . I have been putting money in a 529 Fund for my grandson's college. If you get what you want, then I will have to take that money and pay for the walmart guy.....................not my grandson. You guys need to settle down.
@averagejoe1 saidI dunno. But doesn't it seem fundamentally inconsistent to support government subsidies for employers to continue paying sub- poverty-level employment, but also be a "small government" guy?
OK. I will go with your social arguements , IF you will tell me how the govt can require a biz owner to pay 'x' amount to workers,, whether they will have to shut down or not. Keep in mind the biz owner has had a 20 year plan to get where he is, took risk, invested his hard earned money, and planned to buy a big house with a swimming pool. Now, he will not meet that d ...[text shortened]... oney and pay for the walmart guy.....................not my grandson. You guys need to settle down.
Employers should pay workers at least as much as it costs to live. That seems reasonable.
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@no1marauder saidThe stockholders, who OWN the company, it is their company, with nothing to do with you or me, decide to pay their CEO for making the company what it is, a mainstay of the USA and HUGE job producer. You want him, in effect, fired, and then who will do the genius management? the company goes to hell, and you dont have a mcdonald's, and the kids are out of work. The 30 year old man shouldn't be working there anyway.
"In comparative terms, CEOs now make on average 278 times the average worker’s salary, using the options-exercised formula. That’s up from 58 times in 1989 and 20 times in 1965, according to the institute’s figures though, it is down from the 2000 peak of 368 to 1. The total compensation growth since 1978 has outstripped that of the stock market growth of 706.7% and the w ...[text shortened]...
So yes, the wealthy can afford to pay higher taxes and companies can afford to pay higher wages.
So, the stockholders, who own the company, make operational and compensation decisions. I am thinking the Marauder thinks he should make those decisions. Or worse, that the government should. This smacks of Marxism. Marauder needs to move to Norway or one of those__________.
Marauder, say I make $10K a day. My neighbor makes $500 a day. Should the neighbor have ANYTHING to say about what I make? A simple question. You seem to be obsessed with what other people make.
@AverageJoe1
I remember when conservatives had ideas. The entire conservative schtick is so curmudeony these days.
Corporations before people? The economy works for the people man, not the other way around. If you're a small government conservative, you would oppose subsidies to corporations.
@averagejoe1 saidThere's been a minimum wage for a long time. If an owner of a business can't figure out how to obey it, maybe he shouldn't be running a business.
OK. I will go with your social arguements , IF you will tell me how the govt can require a biz owner to pay 'x' amount to workers,, whether they will have to shut down or not. Keep in mind the biz owner has had a 20 year plan to get where he is, took risk, invested his hard earned money, and planned to buy a big house with a swimming pool. Now, he will not meet that d ...[text shortened]... oney and pay for the walmart guy.....................not my grandson. You guys need to settle down.
@averagejoe1 saidCorporations are artificial entities that exist only because the representatives of the People say they can exist. Therefore those same representatives can make whatever regulations regarding them as they please.
The stockholders, who OWN the company, it is their company, with nothing to do with you or me, decide to pay their CEO for making the company what it is, a mainstay of the USA and HUGE job producer. You want him, in effect, fired, and then who will do the genius management? the company goes to hell, and you dont have a mcdonald's, and the kids are out of work. The 30 ...[text shortened]... to say about what I make? A simple question. You seem to be obsessed with what other people make.
You keep flying incoherently from one subject to another but I think I've proven my point i.e. Corporations have plenty of money to pay higher wages and the wealthy have plenty of money to pay higher taxes.
@no1marauder saidMinimum wage concept is fine. But Hell, y’all want to really want to get it up there, $15.00 ? Why not $50.00?
There's been a minimum wage for a long time. If an owner of a business can't figure out how to obey it, maybe he shouldn't be running a business.