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  1. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    26 Jun '13 17:15
    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/26/19151971-supreme-court-strikes-down-defense-of-marriage-act-paves-way-for-gay-marriage-to-resume-in-california?lite&GT1=43001
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    26 Jun '13 18:365 edits
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/26/19151971-supreme-court-strikes-down-defense-of-marriage-act-paves-way-for-gay-marriage-to-resume-in-california?lite&GT1=43001
    why is someone who opposes gay marriage a bigot? It appears to me that in terming those who oppose it as bigots you are engaging in hate speech yourself, which is ironic, perhaps even hypocritical considering the nature of the accusation. It appears to me that people oppose it for all kinds of reasons, it does not necessitate that they are bigots for doing so.
  3. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    26 Jun '13 18:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why is someone who opposes gay marriage a bigot? It appears to me that in terming those who oppose it as bigots you are engaging in hate speech yourself, which is ironic, perhaps even hypocritical considering the nature of the accusation. It appears to me that people oppose it for all kinds of reasons, it does not necessitate that they are bigots for doing so.
    Well, his point wasn't necessarily that all DOMA opponents are bigots. Just that the ones that are are very sad. 🙂
  4. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    26 Jun '13 19:073 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why is someone who opposes gay marriage a bigot? It appears to me that in terming those who oppose it as bigots you are engaging in hate speech yourself, which is ironic, perhaps even hypocritical considering the nature of the accusation. It appears to me that people oppose it for all kinds of reasons, it does not necessitate that they are bigots for doing so.
    Because they ARE. Just like those that opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 were racists. Any time someone denies equal rights to anyone, that is bigotry/racism. Why are you taking it so personal?

    Of course bigots will try and twist it as taking away their 'right' to discriminate.

    The Supreme Court now sees it as it really is. Someday, maybe you will too.
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    26 Jun '13 19:361 edit
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    Because they ARE. Just like those that opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 were racists. Any time someone denies equal rights to anyone, that is bigotry/racism. Why are you taking it so personal?

    Of course bigots will try and twist it as taking away their 'right' to discriminate.

    The Supreme Court now sees it as it really is. Someday, maybe you will too.
    'because they are', is not a reason, in fact, its a logical fallacy, which amounts to 'its true because I say its true'. Now while I am sure you are an authority on bigotry and i have no reason to doubt your expertise, appeals to authority like this are fallacious. You mention the civil rights movement which was fought on the basis of racism, but sexuality is not race, is it, ones race cannot be changed, are you willing to state that sexuality is likewise immutable, no, then the analogy is a failure.

    It appears to me that those who oppose the idea do so for various reasons, none of which you have mentioned, thus in engaging in hate speech you reflect the very accusation that you level against other people, which is hypocrisy. People have the right to exercise the faculty of conscience, to term them bigots for doing so is hateful.

    I have no problem with government, I am absolutely apolitical, they can do what they like and it makes absolutely no difference to me making this last assertion, quite ludicrous. If you want to celebrate the decision, fine, but why engage in hate speech while you are at it?
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    26 Jun '13 19:371 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Well, his point wasn't necessarily that all DOMA opponents are bigots. Just that the ones that are are very sad. 🙂
    Your magnanimity is legendary for sure Swiss Gambit.
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    26 Jun '13 22:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    'because they are', is not a reason, in fact, its a logical fallacy, which amounts to 'its true because I say its true'. Now while I am sure you are an authority on bigotry and i have no reason to doubt your expertise, appeals to authority like this are fallacious. You mention the civil rights movement which was fought on the basis of racism, but s ...[text shortened]... you want to celebrate the decision, fine, but why engage in hate speech while you are at it?
    maybe if you named some of the non-bigoted reasons for woody it would help him and people who agree with him see why its okay for some people to oppose gay marriage.
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    26 Jun '13 22:183 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    maybe if you named some of the non-bigoted reasons for woody it would help him and people who agree with him see why its okay for some people to oppose gay marriage.
    wow, you want me to do someone else's homework? for free? even if i did present reasons he may and probably will not agree with them, how hard can it be to goggle, why some oppose same sex marriage?

    get Mrs Stellspalfie to feel your bum and be brought back to reality.
  9. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    26 Jun '13 22:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    wow, you want me to do someone else's homework? for free? even if i did present reasons he may and probably will not agree with them, how hard can it be to goggle, why some oppose same sex marriage?

    get Mrs Stellspalfie to feel your bum and be brought back to reality.
    Why does this take homework? You can't think of one off the top of your head? 😕
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    26 Jun '13 22:591 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Why does this take homework? You can't think of one off the top of your head? 😕
    ok, some people feel that its unnatural (please dont try the animals are gay argument) , some people oppose it on moral grounds, etc etc, but even when presented with reasons one should not need to resort to hate speech even if one does not think those reasons valid.
  11. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    27 Jun '13 01:032 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    'because they are', is not a reason, in fact, its a logical fallacy, which amounts to 'its true because I say its true'. Now while I am sure you are an authority on bigotry and i have no reason to doubt your expertise, appeals to authority like this are fallacious. .

    It appears to me that those who oppose the idea do so for various reasons, none ...[text shortened]... you want to celebrate the decision, fine, but why engage in hate speech while you are at it?
    [You mention the civil rights movement which was fought on the basis of racism, but sexuality is not race, is it, ones race cannot be changed, are you willing to state that sexuality is likewise immutable, no, then the analogy is a failure]

    I'm not surprised you failed to understand that my point was about discrimination - not race. It is based on ignorance, such as the ignorance you just displayed, that sexuality is not immutable like race is. You also go on and answer that very question for me, showing your expertise on fallaciousness.

    Of course there is more than one reason why people oppose or agree with things. But the underlying main reason for the opposition to marriage equality is bigotry, which is based on ignorance, intolerance, and hate. It doesn't take an 'authority on bigotry' to see that...just someone who sees the truth. Deny it all you want.

    As we learn more as a society, as we become smarter, bigotry such as yours will ultimately be defeated.

    Calling a bigot a bigot is not hate. It's a fact.
  12. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    27 Jun '13 01:08
    I also want to point out that imposing YOUR morals on all Americans is more hateful than anything I've said.
  13. Standard memberwoodypusher
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    27 Jun '13 01:102 edits
    I applaud Supreme Court, for evolving with the times, and learning from the mistakes of our past.

    Whether or not people like Robbie want to accept change for the better is inconsequential.

    If you truly believe that everything is part of god's plan, then I suggest the message is clear. End the hate in his name. End the intolerance in his name. And end the ignorance in his name.
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    27 Jun '13 01:50
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why is someone who opposes gay marriage a bigot? It appears to me that in terming those who oppose it as bigots you are engaging in hate speech yourself, which is ironic, perhaps even hypocritical considering the nature of the accusation. It appears to me that people oppose it for all kinds of reasons, it does not necessitate that they are bigots for doing so.
    Yes, those opposing gay marriage are bigots. Just as those who opposed interracial marriage, which was illegal in many US states until the supreme Court decision in 1967, Loving VS Virginia, were bigots.
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    27 Jun '13 01:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ok, some people feel that its unnatural (please dont try the animals are gay argument) , some people oppose it on moral grounds, etc etc, but even when presented with reasons one should not need to resort to hate speech even if one does not think those reasons valid.
    People used these same arguments to separate blacks from whites. No different.
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