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Originally posted by pradtfjust got the response from peta and have posted it below - there will clearly be no distribution to children under 13. also, some fur facts possibly from the comic posted after this too.
i have written to peta to see if i can learn more about what this is about
in friendship,
prad
peta response:
Thank you for your letter to PETA and for allowing us to address your concerns. Please know that many of us here at PETA are parents ourselves and agree that parents should be concerned about what kids are exposed to. That includes the very dangerous message that fur-wearers send to kids: that cruelty to animals is acceptable. However, we are not distributing this leaflet to children under 13. Instead, we are giving the leaflets directly to their mothers.
Children are inherently compassionate, yet most simply aren't told the truth about how animals suffer for the fur industry. Fur traps, for instance, don't kill animals instantly or painlessly - many animals are trapped for days, starving and suffering excruciating pain from the steel jaws clamped on them. Some, especially mothers with babies to tend to, chew through their limbs in order to escape. These traps are so notoriously cruel that they have been banned in more than 70 countries - but sadly, not in America. Fur farms are no better. After months of confinement to crowded, filthy cages, extreme temperatures, and unbearable boredom, death finally comes by suffocation, neck breaking, or genital electrocution. Sometimes, these methods only stun - not kill - the animals, who end up being skinned alive.
As a parent myself, I know that raising a compassionate child in today's violent world can be a challenging task. I encourage you to join us in teaching children the vital message that torturing animals for vanity is not OK. For information on the link between animal abuse and violence toward humans, please visit http://www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsc24.html.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and for allowing us to address your concerns. For more information on our Fur Campaign and to learn what you can do to help, please visit FurIsDead.com.
fur facts from the comic (i think):
Fur Facts
The fur trade is a violent, bloody industry. Trapping, beating, drowning, and ripping animals' skins from their backs simply for vanity is absolutely indefensible.
Every year millions of animals are trapped, drowned, and beaten to death in the wild and strangled, gassed or electrocuted on fur farms.
In the 21st century, people can choose to be cruel or kind. With so many fashionable, comfortable leather and fur alternatives out today, there is no excuse for wearing any animal skins. We are not survivalists.
Guess that's the "Company line" Unfortunately the pamphlet is addressed to children, and as reported in New York today haas been handed out to young children. Sorry but this is totally indefensible and should be stopped immediately. They can not say for sure that overzealous members are not handing them out willy-nilly
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Originally posted by chaswrayif this is really what is happening, i agree with you - it should be stopped immediately via law enforcement intervention if necessary.
Guess that's the "Company line" Unfortunately the pamphlet is addressed to children, and as reported in New York today haas been handed out to young children. Sorry but this is totally indefensible and should be stopped immediately. The ...[text shortened]... sure that overzealous members are not handing them out willy-nilly
where did you hear from that this is happening? i couldn't find anything on the net, but that could be because it isn't up there yet.
i will try to find out more - i'd really like to know.
in friendship,
prad
ps btw, merry christmas to you too
Prad,
Have you seen the cover of the pamphlet? Just curious. Also, at the Peta site there is a link to order said pamphlet, so I'm guessing anyone can order them and hand them out? And yet they claim that they only hand them out to the mothers and children over 13! Hmmm, sorry, just doesn't ring true to me.
Charlie
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Originally posted by chaswrayyes i have seen the cover on the internet - can't say i like it, but then who am i?
Prad,
Have you seen the cover of the pamphlet? Just curious. Also, at the Peta site there is a link to order said pamphlet, so I'm guessing anyone can order them and hand them out? And yet they claim that they only hand them out to the ...[text shortened]... dren over 13! Hmmm, sorry, just doesn't ring true to me.
Charlie
it looks like anyone can fill out the form, but it doesn't look like an order form just a contact form since there is no indication of quantity requested. i would think it is unlikely that peta would distribute these blindly too since for all they know it could be the fur association that is mass ordering them and trashing them. my guess is after you fill out the form, they contact you and figure things out from there.
as i think about it, i frankly don't see why peta would do something as blatantly illogical as distribute something like this to young kids. they're a pretty smart and effective organization, as they have proved over the years, and surely they know the ramifications both in terms of publicity and legality. however, you make a good point about 'over-zealous' people. i know that peta has an intern program and it is possible that some of them may be involved in the distribution, but even so i would think they would be well-trained before doing the distribution.
i still haven't found anything on the net, so i figure your statement regarding what was happening in new york is coming from the tv news? i'll keep looking.
in friendship,
prad
Prad,
It was reported on the early New York news this AM and also a program called the View which my wife watches. I happen to be off today and heard both. I don't live in New York, just have the satellite feeds.
Quite frankly, if at age 55 if I were attending the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy with my mother and somone handed me or her that pamphlet, I would take exception to it. To call someone's mother a killer simply for a fur coat is like saying we are all killers for driving a car. Again, it's my opinion, but I find this as bad as what they are demonstrating against. How many holidays are they ruining at Christmas?
Regards,
Charlie
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Originally posted by chaswraythanks for letting me know. i figured that it was something like tv or radio, because i found nothing on the net about it. perhaps, it will show up in the next day or two.
Prad,
It was reported on the early New York news this AM and also a program called the View which my wife watches. ...
Quite frankly, if at age 55 if I were attending the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy with my mother and somone hand ...[text shortened]... , but I find this as bad as what they are demonstrating against.
i can see why some people would be upset receiving a pamphlet like that - some AR approaches are very in-your-face and some aren't. however, i don't agree that it is anywhere close to being 'as bad as what they are demonstrating against'. nor do i see the logic of the comparision to driving a car - though there might be some validity if we were to say that 'driving a car' when drunk makes you a potential killer.
of course, the 'mother' isn't the actual killer, but is supporting the activity by purchasing fur. so in terms of accuracy the concept doesn't really make sense and is purely designed to dramatize the plight of the animals and the callousness of the humans. in alignment with that dramatization, the leaflets are distributed to heighten awareness. i don't think this is a bad thing (unless it is attempted on young kids, as we have already discussed).
many people who wear fur do not know what they are supporting. we had a very good friend in ontario (mother of a student of mine, actually), who felt it was fine to wear fur, because they are bred for that purpose - she had no idea of the conditions they are kept in or the way they are killed. as a result of campaigns like these (and not just by peta), many people have stopped wearing fur (the industry has been crippled from what i understand). in fact, many people have donated their furs to peta who spray paint them and give them away - for instance, to the refugees in iraq (last november).
i am curious to see just how this campaign develops and whether it runs into hot water or generates some.
thanks again for your information.
in friendship,
prad
Originally posted by chaswrayI think what PETA and other organizations dowell is make one think about things.
Prad,
It was reported on the early New York news this AM and also a program called the View which my wife watches. I happen to be off today and heard both. I don't live in New York, just have the satellite feeds.
Quite frankly, if at age 55 if I were attending the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy with my mother and somone handed me or her that pamphle ...[text shortened]... are demonstrating against. How many holidays are they ruining at Christmas?
Regards,
Charlie
For some it might seem extreme and ruining holidays???????????
Remember a few peoples actions shouldn't reflect the organization as a whole.
Fur is not pretty anyway you look at it.
Big G.
Originally posted by biggYou don't feel that handing a young child a cartoon that says " You're Mommy is as Killer", might in some way ruin that child's enjoyment of the holiday show??? Maybe even traumatise them??? Sorry I try to treat people on an ethical basis first.
I think what PETA and other organizations dowell is make one think about things.
For some it might seem extreme and ruining holidays???????????
Remember a few peoples actions shouldn't reflect the organization as a whole.
Fur is not pretty anyway you look at it.
Big G.
And I don't think PETA' actions are just of a few. Witness the ad of a fur wearing woman being clubbed to death a while back. Just a bit extremist for my tastes.
Merry Christmas
Charlie
Originally posted by chaswrayThanks for yoru comments. Yes there are more appropriate ways of using body language.
You don't feel that handing a young child a cartoon that says " You're Mommy is as Killer", might in some way ruin that child's enjoyment of the holiday show??? Maybe even traumatise them??? Sorry I try to treat people on an ethical basis first.
And I don't think PETA' actions are just of a few. Witness the ad of a fur wearing woman being clubbed to death a while back. Just a bit extremist for my tastes.
Merry Christmas
Charlie
Do you not think the suffering the animals had to thru to provide that coat is not extreme ? Fur is unnecessary I live in -30 degree weather and no need for fur.
We might want to Give children alot more credit then they deserve. They are alot more aware and understanding then we think.
They are exposed to alot more violent behaviour then this flyer.
How many times are children exposed to a flyer such as this compared to video games, tv etc.
There ads work because they make a impression.
Think about it for a moment what do they stand to profit from?
99% of advertisements are going to give you some BS, for example
Milk is good for you. inmho this is extreme.
They should be sued for this nonsense just like the tobacco companies have been.
Big G.
Originally posted by biggI am in no way condoning the fur industry. I don't own one and like you, live in a cold climate. Although not -30!
Thanks for yoru comments. Yes there are more appropriate ways of using body language.
Do you not think the suffering the animals had to thru to provide that coat is not extreme ? Fur is unnecessary I live in -30 degree weather and no need for fur.
We might want to Give children alot more credit then they deserve. They are alot more aware and understanding ...[text shortened]... They should be sued for this nonsense just like the tobacco companies have been.
Big G.
My point in all this is that until man learns to treat man humanely and fairly and equally, how can you ever expect him to treat an animal aso?
As far asa children being exposed to more violent behavior, I'm sure they are, but that still does not make PETA's behavior right or even ethical.
A simple poll in my little rural area of PA., today had almost 100 per cent responding as to where PETA could put this pamphlet!
Trust me there are not a lot of fur wearers in this area, just simple people, most desccended from coal miners and farmers and now unemployed. Ask them, I'm sure they'd tell you there are more pressing issues than PETA's nonsense.
Merry Christmas
Charlie
PS I wouldn't wander into this neck of the woods spouting off about the milk industry either. Whether or not it's good for you depends on which government study you want to believe today.
Originally posted by chaswrayi'm surprised that there would be a government study against milk. this is very interesting considering the industry has such a strong lobby. it must be fairly recent too, i would guess.
My point in all this is that until man learns to treat man humanely and fairly and equally, how can you ever expect him to treat an animal aso?
...
PS I wouldn't wander into this neck of the woods spouting off about the milk industry either. Whether or not it's good for you depends on which government study you want to believe today.
you really make an excellent point here about 'man learns to treat man humanely and fairly and equally'. i tried to deal with this idea in an earlier post (on this thread). to some extent, this lies very near the crux of the animal rights debate.
let me put forth this idea as a response for your perusal: 'the only way man will treat other men humanely, fairly and equally is when man is able to treat those sentient beings who are the most defenseless and voiceless with compassion'.
it is a conjecture which i am making without supplying evidence (yet), but here are some quotations from people who are fairly well-known in history who have said similar things:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher
"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who deal likewise with their fellow men."
Francis of Assisi, saint
"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, philosopher and mathematician
"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor
"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace."
Albert Schweitzer, missionary and statesman, Nobel 1952
naturally, i do not present quotations as a proof of my premise, but i would be happy to discuss this with you further since i too find you to be a 'voice of reason' - though probably not for the same rationale that phlabibit does 😀
in friendship,
prad
Hi Prad,
I do not disagree with any of those quotations, they are very noble. However I would think that the common man would tend to worry about himself first. As such he'll worry about food, clothing and shelter. I doubt the caveman much worried about that wooly mammoth when he skinned it for fur to keep warm.Yes there are abuses in the meat industry, yes there are abuses in the fur industry and I could go on and name abuses in a lot of industries.
Myself I would rather see our abuses against each other take center stage
Merry Christmas
Charlie
PS If my spelling looks bad, I have sticky keys from my grandaughter spilling syrup on my keyboard
🙄