Bullying

Originally posted by lemon lime
Yeah, it was surreal to see the bully switch over to defensive mode, as though the little guy was the bully and the big guy was trying to reason with him. By the way thanks for the encouragement... the way it's been going at a couple other forums I may end up coming here more often.

That incident gave me a lot to think about. The little guy wasn ...[text shortened]... o stop him... the big guy didn't want to take a chance on getting smacked by little big man.

Little guy apparently had mental toughness, something the big guy hadn't encountered in his previous confrontations. Any thoughts on factors that may gradually convert an infant into a bully (other than a neglectful mother and brutish father)?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Little guy apparently had mental toughness, something the big guy hadn't encountered in his previous confrontations. Any thoughts on factors that may gradually convert an infant into a bully (other than a neglectful mother and brutish father)?

I think there are many other factors involved, and many different kinds of bullies. And those factors can be mixed and matched to provide us with a diverse rainbow collection of different flavors and varieties. Some seem to be reasonable and passive on the surface, and their victims won't always know "what went wrong" when something does go wrong. Personally, I think the sly ones are the scariest, because it's often not clear what they are up to or how to deal with them.

Not everyone becomes a bully because of neglect or bullying. Some people might become bullies because of being bullied, and others will hate it and learn to deal with it without becoming one. And some people end up dealing with it by becoming permanent victims... not the best way to deal with it, but in their own minds the matter has been resolved and that can provide at least some relief for them.

I think one cause can simply be because of the payoff, like the temporary feel good payoff some drugs are able to deliver... in other words they do it because of how good it makes them feel. Drugs can make people feel powerful, and we are all able to produce our own natural feel good drugs (endorphins). I believe there are hereditary (naturally more aggressive) and environmental factors that mix in with all of this as well.

I'm making this sound more complicated than it really is. In my opinion bullies are basically narcissists, some are cowards trying to overcome their own self esteem issues and others are just naturally inclined to lord it over and exert power over other people.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I think there are many other factors involved, and many different kinds of bullies. And those factors can be mixed and matched to provide us with a diverse rainbow collection of different flavors and varieties. Some seem to be reasonable and passive on the surface, and their victims won't always know "what went wrong" when something does go wrong. Persona s and others are just naturally inclined to lord it over and exert power over other people.

"... some are cowards trying to overcome their own self esteem issues and others are just naturally inclined to lord it over and exert power over other people."

I fully agree. Cowardice and Power Lust, however, aren't the result of some 'natural' genetic predisposition but, in my view, are learned. Also, both personal and spiritual self esteem are crucial factors in the civilized values and behaviour equation.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Also, both personal and spiritual self esteem are crucial factors in the civilized values and behaviour equation.[/b]

WTF does this mean in plain language?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"... some are cowards trying to overcome their own self esteem issues and others are just naturally inclined to lord it over and exert power over other people."

I fully agree. Cowardice and Power Lust, however, aren't the result of some 'natural' genetic predisposition but, in my view, are learned. Also, both personal and spiritual self esteem are crucial factors in the civilized values and behaviour equation.

I think genetic predispositions are real enough, but I also think the word predisposition is a bit misleading because it implies behavior leading in only one direction. The same aggressive tendencies and focus used for harm can also be used for doing good things, so there is definitely a personal choice being made and it's not always a bad one. That little guy I told you about was the youngest of three boys when he was growing up, and he ended up becoming a pastor who can see the potential good in almost anyone. And he's not afraid of what some people think of him or will say about him... he's just as fearless now as he was then.

His oldest brother was a bully who ended up going to prison, and gave me some grief when I was a little boy... I hated that guy for years, until I saw him shortly after he got out of prison. He looked so small and defeated I couldn't hate him anymore, even though I wanted to. I actually felt a little sorry for the guy. It's good the empathy won out over the hatred, because after that the memories of him following me home after school immediately stopped haunting me.

Originally posted by lemon lime
I think genetic predispositions are real enough, but I also think the word predisposition is a bit misleading because it implies behavior leading in only one direction. The same aggressive tendencies and focus used for harm can also be used for doing good things, so there is definitely a personal choice being made and it's not always a bad o er that the memories of him following me home after school immediately stopped haunting me.

"The same aggressive tendencies and focus used for harm can also be used for doing good things, so there is definitely a personal choice being made and it's not always a bad one."

Incisive. Marty was the youngest boy; his brother Richard was bright, competitive, well behaved but also devious. Marty's stature was runt-like, his demeanor confrontational. Most kids in the neighborhood liked and trusted Richard and were afraid of his loud mouthed little brother. My enlightening came one summer morning when Marty, sensing our disapproval of his colorful/prohibited language, standing akimbo glares at us all with riveting eyelock as he says, "You guys are bad as I am and maybe worse and think about girls the same way but you're just too afraid to let it out". I lost touch with Richard but kept in touch with my new friend Marty until leaving that Boston area suburb. Their dad owned the town's pool hall.

Originally posted by Ponderable
so you understand those neighbours:

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/NEIGHBORS-WANT-FAMILYS-HANDICAP-RAMP-REMOVED-218930251.html?device=tablet
??

Now THERE is a bunch of civic minded citizens. Man, what a family of asssholes. I had a son with CP and I can tell you it is a terrible disease. My sister is taking care of our 94 yo mother and had to have a ramp installed and the state came by and said you need to pay 200 bucks for a ramp licence! Then after the fine was paid, another state agency came by and said you have to tear it down because it is made of wood.

My sister contacted a local TV station covering local events and a builder heard of her plight and came forward and volunteered to rebuild on made of metal, for free. THAT is what good neighbors do.

And we have people who aren't even American now saying that maybe we need to restrain our media. I'm from Arizona, a very conservative state, and local media outlets are just about the only ones who get anything done here. Most people in government here are just pure obstructionists.

Originally posted by Suzianne
And we have people who aren't even American now saying that maybe we need to restrain our media. I'm from Arizona, a very conservative state, and local media outlets are just about the only ones who get anything done here. Most people in government here are just pure obstructionists.

What better way to keep their "jobs".

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"The same aggressive tendencies and focus used for harm can also be used for doing good things, so there is definitely a personal choice being made and it's not always a bad one."

Incisive. Marty was the youngest boy; his brother Richard was bright, competitive, well behaved but also devious. Marty's stature was runt-like, his demeanor confrontationa ...[text shortened]... riend Marty until leaving that Boston area suburb. Their dad owned the town's pool hall.

It's not often I run into someone who takes note of the same kind of things I do. Or maybe it's because you are willing to say what a lot of people don't say, or won't say. Either way, I can't help noticing how similar our experiences seem to be. Not necessarily the experiences themselves, but what we each took away from them. About 20 years ago I became friends with a guy I didn't like because he was brash and offensive, and I never did get used to that, but there was something about him that I liked... to this day I still can't identify just what exactly it was I liked about him.

So bully* for us! And help yurself to a beer... no, your own beer. I don't got any beer.


*meets with minimum standard for staying/being on topic

Originally posted by lemon lime

It's not often I run into someone who takes note of the same kind of things I do. Or maybe it's because you are willing to say what a lot of people don't say, or won't say. Either way, I can't help noticing how similar our experiences seem to be. Not necessarily the experiences themselves, but what we each took away from them. About 20 years ago I becam ...[text shortened]... don't got any beer.


*meets with minimum standard for staying/being on topic

"... but there was something about him that I liked... to this day I still can't identify just what exactly it was I liked about him."

Authenticity; the genuine article; socially assertive and abrasive yet redeemed by reason of the fact that he was comfortable in his own skin. You could count on him to be himself, unchanged one day to the next. There's comfort in sameness.

Originally posted by Kegge
WTF does this mean in plain language?

Street worn vocabularies and postured questions aren't helping revitalize this first class forum. Please wake up.

Originally posted by ChessPraxis
I'm all in favor of it and I believe we need more of it.
Discuss

Funny Stuff! 😉

Some are just way better at it than others!!! 😛

Originally posted by Kegge
WTF does this mean in plain language?

WTF???

Keep that kind of talk for the bedroom! 😛 😉

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"... but there was something about him that I liked... to this day I still can't identify just what exactly it was I liked about him."

Authenticity; the genuine article; socially assertive and abrasive yet redeemed by reason of the fact that he was comfortable in his own skin. You could count on him to be himself, unchanged one day to the next. There's comfort in sameness.

That never occurred to me, but I believe you're right. He didn't have a problem with me, even though our personalities seemed to be polar opposites. He was someone I could trust. Too many people in this world ready and able to be your good buddy and "friend" in order to get something from you. He wasn't feigning friendship for a purpose.

By the way, what's your take on those thumbs-up thumbs-down icons on the upper right hand corner of messages, where people can express their pleasure/displeasure? Maybe if we both start posturing and acting like a couple of cool tough guys our approval rating will go up... what do you think?