Originally posted by ivanhoeExplain please. And while your at it, take into account the ten commandments and explain how they are logically broken although religion (in this case christianity) supposedly obeys God's every whim?
Yes, and so is reason. There is an inner logic in religion
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
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Originally posted by FeivelWell,to understand this correctly I have to say that this inner logic is not the logic used in science, but rather the inner logic you can find in a work of art, a novel, a movie. The words in the Bible refer to eachother. I'm sure you know because you stated earlier that you've read the entire Bible in the original languages. Now I find it hard to show how this referring is done, but I'm sure you know what I mean, because you know more about the Bible than I do.
Explain please. And while your at it, take into account the ten commandments and explain how they are logically broken although religion (in this case christianity) supposedly obeys God's every whim?
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
For instance the Ten Commandments. If you interprete these commandments as being the commands of a dictator, as a lot of freethinkers do, then the whole inner logic of the Bible changes. You will see everything in a certain perspective. Now if you regard the Ten Commandments as a roadmap to happiness in your life, given to you by a loving Father, your understanding changes in the light of this interpretation.
The Jews have, as you'll know, a holiday on which they celebrate the Law given by the Lord. Why would they do that ? Are they celebrating the harsh dictatorship of the Lord or are they celebrating the way He showed us out of our spiritual desert into the spiritual Land of milk and honey ?
You mentioned that the Ten Commandments are logically broken although ... etc.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, but I hope I have given you a beginning of an answer.
Joe
You have attempted to answer but I still don't follow your "logic." What you are calling inner logic seems to be the interplay between the words (and letters) found in the Hebrew and Aramaic of the tanach (the old testament). The fact that the interplay does not appear in the testament christians choose to follow should be quite revealing to you. Now Freethinkers aside, the ten commandments are viewed (by Jews) as an absolute that can't be and isn't broke (provided they follow the Torah) , christians break commandments as they see fit. Now by your assesment of the inner logic in the bible, logically you should be a convert to Judaism NOT a follower of some quasi-judeo sect that they call christianity. By your own argument you are being illogical 🙂
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
Originally posted by ivanhoeIf you want, you can list each of the ten and next to them you can explain how the church (and christians) follow and I will gladly counter with many instances of their breaking them 🙂
You mentioned that the Ten Commandments are logically broken although ... etc.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, but I hope I have given you a beginning of an answer.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
Originally posted by Feivel
If you want, you can list each of the ten and next to them you can explain how the church (and christians) follow and I will gladly counter with many instances of their breaking them 🙂
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
How does the church break the commandments in her teachings ?
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Originally posted by FeivelI suppose you mean this question.
Explain please. And while your at it, take into account the ten commandments and explain how they are logically broken although religion (in this case christianity) supposedly obeys God's every whim?
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
You want me to explain why Christians are not obedient to their Lord.
Well, I guess the same way and for the same reasons children are disobedient to their father or mother. They know better or they see some advantage they can gain or maybe they are afraid or maybe the reason is sheer stupidity or ignorance. Christians have the same intentions or reasons as other people have to go astray.
By the way where did you get the impression that Christians obey God's every whim as you've put it ?
You're looking upon God as a dictator, I don't. I do not believe in
that kind of God, simply because he does not exist.
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe reason as you say is ignorance. Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and the rest of the bible is "ignored." In any event, I ask you to list the ten commandments and explain how the christian church obeys them. you have not done so and I doubt you will. By the way, if you are going to use my words please try to read my posts correctly and fully first. When did I say christians obey God's every whim? Do you see the word supposedly or are you "ignoring" it as most christians would in order to further their own agenda? It is also interesting to see you know how I view God. That is extremely presumptuous of you (not to mention it fits the christian mentality EXACTLY). As far as what type of God you believe in, I understand that you do not believe in the god found in the bible. You and other christians are manufacturing a god that fits your views. Nothing per se is wrong with that but do not try to put your manufactured god over as the true God.
I suppose you mean this question.
You want me to explain why Christians are not obedient to their Lord.
Well, I guess the same way and for the same reasons children are disobedient to their father or mother. They know better or they see some advantage they can gain or maybe they are afraid or maybe the reason is sheer stupidity or ignorance. Christ ...[text shortened]... dictator, I don't. I do not believe in
that kind of God, simply because he does not exist.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
1 edit
"In any event, I ask you to list the ten commandments and explain how the christian church obeys them. you have not done so and I doubt you will." Feivel
How do you think I should do that. How can I explain how they are obeying this or that commandment. I answered your question why and how Christians in my view can be disobedient. This also goes for the clergy within the church. People do make mistakes.
You pointed out that there is a difference between teachings and practice. Absolutely true.What I'm interested in is how in your view the teachings of the Church contradict in a fundamental and relevant way the 10 Commandments or the Old and the New Testament for that matter.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou have the nerve to ask a question of me BEFORE you answer a simple question that you have been avoiding for a few posts? how do you list the ten commandments? Are you serious? Did you throw out reason and common sense to embrace religion? I am giving you a chance to explain (point by point) how the church (and christians) obey the ten commandments as they are written. Do that otherwise stop with your foolishness.
"In any event, I ask you to list the ten commandments and explain how the christian church obeys them. you have not done so and I doubt you will." Feivel
How do you think I should do that. How can I explain why they are obeying this or that commandment. I answered your question why Christians in my view can be disobedient. This also goes for the clergy ...[text shortened]... l and relevant way the 10 Commandments or the Old and the New Testament for that matter.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
Originally posted by Feivel
You have the nerve to ask a question of me BEFORE you answer a simple question that you have been avoiding for a few posts? how do you list the ten commandments? Are you serious? Did you throw out reason and common sense to embrace religion? I am giving you a chance to explain (point by point) how the church (and christians) obey the ten commandments as they ...[text shortened]... . Do that otherwise stop with your foolishness.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
I'm perfectly willing to discuss issues with you on a basis of equality,
however I'm not willing to discuss things with you on a master-servant basis.
You're asking something of me which I simply cannot deliver.
I'm sorry.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYour avoidance is an indication that you are UNWILLING to answer NOT unable (which in this case is a MAJOR copout as everybody reading can see). And what gives you the master-servant idea? Did I ever say I was your master (or your servant)? Oh, perhaps it is that foolish new testament idea that a christian is supposed to be a servant. Your lack of answer shows me (and others here) that christianity (and along with it other revealed religions) are a bunch of superstitious junk. Now do you still want to know why revealed religion is taboo to Freethinkers?
I'm perfectly willing to discuss issues with you on a basis of equality,
however I'm not willing to discuss things with you on a master-servant basis.
You're asking something of me which I simply cannot deliver.
I'm sorry.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
Originally posted by ivanhoeHow are you unable to list the ten commandments and how the church, hence christianity, obeys them? If you truly are unable to "deliver" then you must come to the conclusion the revealed religion is unable to "deliver" and you can stop fooling yourself by following the church.
You're asking something of me which I simply cannot deliver.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
Originally posted by Feivel
You have the nerve to ask a question of me BEFORE you answer a simple question that you have been avoiding for a few posts? how do you list the ten commandments? Are you serious? Did you throw out reason and common sense to embrace religion? I am giving you a chance to explain (point by point) how the church (and christians) obey the ten commandments as they ...[text shortened]... . Do that otherwise stop with your foolishness.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker
You are playing the same games and performing the same tricks, that you used in your discussion with bbarr. I can feel the disdain and hatred that you have in store for people who believe in God, especially for Christians and maybe even more for Roman Catholic people.
You claim you want to fight superstition, irrational behaviour and ignorance, but you are not fighting these entities but you are waging war against people, who in your view hold those qualifications. You simply cannot deal with criticism especially when it comes from a person who belongs to the category for which you feel disdain and hatred. If you want to fight prejudice and irrational behaviour I suggest you start with the person you see in the mirror every morning.
The post that really did it was the one you posted in the "Israel situation" thread. It had nothing to do with the subject in question, but was intended to attack and insult me. I do not accept that.
Originally posted by ivanhoei asked a simple question that an answer by you would mean volumes. Apparently the answers are not want you or other christians want to be known so you refuse to answer. That is an all to common tactic. Incidentally, whate hate for those who believe in God do i have? If you remove the blinders form yourself for a minute you would clearly see posts of mine stating that I believe in God but NOT the god of the bible and certainly not the manufactured God of Pauline christianity. I am waging war? You sir are a moron. Explain whos name more people were killed in? Bet you come to another conclusion you wouldnt want to say. I can't take criticism? Start criticizing instead of speaking foolish nonsence. Now please explain how a remark by me that stated I found your use of a term funny can be construed as an attack? i am sure you know what assuming leads to 🙂
You are playing the same games and performing the same tricks, that you used in your discussion with bbarr. I can feel the disdain and hatred that you have in store for people who believe in God, especially for Christians and maybe even more for Roman Catholic people.
You claim you want to fight superstition, irrational behaviour and ignorance, but you ...[text shortened]... ith the subject in question, but was intended to attack and insult me. I do not accept that.
Amici Sumus
Feivel the HardcoreFreethinker