How Many People Still Pray?

Zamboner

General

21 May '13 18:44

whodey
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22 May '13 13:341 edit
Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
If you abolish the IRS,

who then will go after Apple and Google and all those
other big American companies who refuse to base themselves
in the USA because of your 39% corporate tax rate?
I got news for ya, the IRS is there for the exact purpose of letting corporations like Apple and Google get out of paying taxes.

It works like this, the IRS creates infinite loop holes so that the richest of the rich don't pay taxes so long as they have a team of lawyers and accountants to figure out the thousands of pages of loop holes. Then they, in turn, lavish the politicians with money for those loop holes.

And then, God forbid, if they go bankrupt we bail them all out. It's called corporate socialism.
sonhouse
Fast and Curious
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22 May '13 15:111 edit
Originally posted by whodey
I got news for ya, the IRS is there for the exact purpose of letting corporations like Apple and Google get out of paying taxes.

It works like this, the IRS creates infinite loop holes so that the richest of the rich don't pay taxes so long as they have a team of lawyers and accountants to figure out the thousands of pages of loop holes. Then they, in tur ...[text shortened]... then, God forbid, if they go bankrupt we bail them all out. It's called corporate socialism.
Meanwhile, about praying, here is the result of one scientific study of prayer using 1800 patients with heart problems, they split the 1800 into 3 groups of 600 each and did a comparison check on those told to pray for one group, not pray for another and so forth. The results: The ones prayed for had a 20% worse result rate for their affliction. I would put that up to just statistical error and the conclusion: Prayer does not work.

http://www.examiner.com/article/prayer-the-part-of-christianity-that-never-works

I do know that proper breathing exercises can bring down your own blood pressure, I have done it dozens of times so INTERNALLY your brain can direct your own healing to a certain extent.

I would start out with a BP reading of 90/140 for instance, do deep breathing, breathe in through the nose, as deep as you can get air in, then out your mouth slowly, doing that for about 15 minutes or so, my BP goes down to 75/115 sometimes. I think it is a matter of forcing relaxation which also relaxes blood vessels. But that is not exactly prayer but it does show internal mental processes can effect your health, both positive and negative. If you are stressed out, your blood cortical levels go way up which is VERY bad for your system so a good relaxation technique can definitely help you in many ways.

That is self help. The prayer thing, at least in this study, didn't work.
whodey
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23 May '13 03:12
Originally posted by sonhouse
Meanwhile, about praying, here is the result of one scientific study of prayer using 1800 patients with heart problems, they split the 1800 into 3 groups of 600 each and did a comparison check on those told to pray for one group, not pray for another and so forth. The results: The ones prayed for had a 20% worse result rate for their affliction. I would put ...[text shortened]... you in many ways.

That is self help. The prayer thing, at least in this study, didn't work.
LOL. There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.

1. God said not to put him to a test.
2. There is zero information about the people praying, how they prayed, who they are praying to etc.
3. Prayer is not a demand, it is a petition.
Indonesia Phil
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23 May '13 04:17
I pray that my chess improves. Not working so far....
Grampy Bobby
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28 May '13 09:15
Originally posted by Indonesia Phil

I pray that my chess improves. Not working so far....
He sometimes grants the request; sometimes the petition; sometimes both; sometimes, neither (when granting them would result in the opposite of what the petitioner wished). You say your chess isn't improving, maybe there's been an improvement in the informational and/or entertainment value of your forum posts; or the quality of your social life; or productivity at work. Phil, how frequently do you pray for guidance to an appropriate book on chess? (gb)
karoly aczel
The Axe man
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28 May '13 19:351 edit
If one had enough conviction in their own insights and revelations, which can be experienced and are experienced by everyone (whether consciously or not), then why would one need to pray?

What would one pray for? Perhaps to allign one's will with "God's" , as whodey suggested? But really, if your conviction was deep and your insight and "outsight" was sound, why would you think that your will was ever out of sync with anything?

Do not think of this as an academic exercise, that is not what it is intended for. This post is actually meant to announce the arrival of peace and imminent enlightenment for all humanity. Amongst other things ...
Grampy Bobby
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28 May '13 21:341 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczel

If one had enough conviction in their own insights and revelations, which can be experienced and are experienced by everyone (whether consciously or not), then why would one need to pray?

What would one pray for? Perhaps to allign one's will with "God's" , as whodey suggested? But really, if your conviction was deep and your insight and "outsight" was ...[text shortened]... nce the arrival of peace and imminent enlightenment for all humanity. Amongst other things ...
"HELP!" How would whodey or anyone else 'pray' that desperate prayer to "their own insights and revelations"?

"Perhaps to allign one's will with "God's", makes total sense. Maybe this 'nature of prayer' inquiry belongs in the Learned Halls of the Debate or Spirituality Forums. (gb)
HandyAndy
Read a book!
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28 May '13 21:58
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Perhaps to allign one's will with "God's", makes total sense. Maybe this 'nature of prayer' inquiry belongs in the Learned Halls of the Debate or Spirituality Forums. (gb)
...where the extremists from both ends of the spectrum can hack it to pieces.
Sicilian Sausage
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28 May '13 22:40
Originally posted by whodey
LOL. There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.

1. God said not to put him to a test.
2. There is zero information about the people praying, how they prayed, who they are praying to etc.
3. Prayer is not a demand, it is a petition.
YouTube
Sicilian Sausage
In your face
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28 May '13 22:421 edit
"And what kind of God can it be anyway,
When you have to prostrate to him five days a day,
I've not read the book so I cannot recite,
But I bet Salman Rushdie was just about right"
SwissGambit
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28 May '13 22:55
Originally posted by whodey
I got news for ya, the IRS is there for the exact purpose of letting corporations like Apple and Google get out of paying taxes.

It works like this, the IRS creates infinite loop holes so that the richest of the rich don't pay taxes so long as they have a team of lawyers and accountants to figure out the thousands of pages of loop holes. Then they, in tur ...[text shortened]... then, God forbid, if they go bankrupt we bail them all out. It's called corporate socialism.
Google not based in the US?

Don't let facts spoil a good rant.
Paul Dirac II
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29 May '13 01:22
Originally posted by whodey
1. God said not to put him to a test.
I have long been curious about something. Is there any religion (past or present) that basically says: "Hey! Our deity is for real and will never try to hide from humans. Put him to the test any time you like. He does not play mind games with the human race."
Grampy Bobby
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29 May '13 01:572 edits
Originally posted by Paul Dirac II

I have long been curious about something. Is there any religion (past or present) that basically says: "Hey! Our deity is for real and will never try to hide from humans. Put him to the test any time you like. He does not play mind games with the human race."
Luke 4:12: "And Jesus answering said unto him, it is said In ( Deuteronomy 6:16 ): Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God: in the text in Deuteronomy the words are, "ye shall not tempt the Lord your God." The second person plural, is here changed into the second person singular, to accommodate the words to Satan; whom Christ singly addresses, and makes answer to, and who was under this same general law as other rational creatures: and Jehovah may be called the Lord his God, as he is his creator and governor; by whom he is upheld in his being, and to whom he is subject, whether he will or not; though not his covenant God: and even if our Lord Jesus Christ is intended by the Lord God, as some think; he is God over all; over all principalities and powers, good and bad, by whom all are created, and in whom all consist; and whose power and authority over Satan and his angels, have abundantly appeared, in dispossessing devils out of men, sending them where he pleased, and in spoiling the powers of darkness, and in destroying him that had the power of death, the devil; and great insolence and wickedness it must be in a creature, to tempt the Lord his God, in any way, or form whatever; See Gill on Matthew 4:7"

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/luke-4-12.html

Paul, I hope this brief commentary places the accuracy of whodey's comment in context. (gb)
Phranny
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29 May '13 02:22
Originally posted by Zamboner
In Johnny's well-meaning thread, he offered his prayers to people who have suffered through tragedy. While this is all well and nice, do people actually still pray? I have a hard time imagining that anyone other than the most devout fundamentalist actually "say their prayers" anymore. Am I wrong?

To me, it's more appropriate to offer condolences and s ...[text shortened]... on? Or perhaps you have a story on the positive effect of prayer that I can defecate on?
While I am not among those who pray, many do with great sincerity. If you do pray, then it is fine to offer this to those who need comfort. I generally say/write that they are in my thoughts and in my heart.
Phranny
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29 May '13 02:28
Originally posted by neilarini
I recollect reading some time ago that patients who are prayed for are more likely to pull through than someone who isn't prayed for.

As an atheist myself I don't believe in any intervention from God but accept that messages of love, support and positivity could possibly have an effect on improving their condition.

You wouldn't need to pray specifica ...[text shortened]... ing someone well but at the same time I do believe that prayers would have a positive effect.
I do believe there have been scientific studies on the impact of prayer on those for whom the prayers are being made. There is none. It's just random. However, individuals who believe in God and pray do tend to heal faster. I believe this makes sense in terms of helping the body produce hormones and chemicals that help healing as opposed to stress which can inhibit healing.

General Forum

How Many People Still Pray?