Originally posted by Frank BurnsReally I was refering to my friend with ALS. Withered seems an appropriate word if I had to sum things up.
I love this sentence.
Simply perfect. No, a vibrant life can not be distilled down to this. Maybe some let it happen. They get tired and quit living. Just existing. My step father is in his late 80's. still vibrant, still works on his Model A's and T's. He keeps his mind and body active. He will also sit down and drink a beer and shoot a game of pool with you.
I'd like to be like him.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI just thought the sentence was poignant. I also thought it applicable on many levels. I apologize if it seemed I had lumped your friend in a group such as this. That was not my intent. Please forgive.
Really I was refering to my friend with ALS. Withered seems an appropriate word if I had to sum things up.
Your opening post is one of the best these poor old forums have seen. Nicely done H.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateI would rec this if I had a sub.
I visited a nursing home the other day to see a sick friend stricken with ALS.
The smell always leaves a lasting impression. Slightly chemical, cleaners and solvents masking an almost sweet sickly odor of living death and decay.
What does despair smell like? What do hopes, dreams and fading memories feel like as they slip through your finger ...[text shortened]... right to take your own life be inalienable?
If you could live forever, would you want to?
And I would get a sub if there were more posts like this
Originally posted by Hand of HecateWhile I am immediately touched by your unflinching honesty, my overwhelming reaction is sorrow for your loss.
I visited a nursing home the other day to see a sick friend stricken with ALS.
The smell always leaves a lasting impression. Slightly chemical, cleaners and solvents masking an almost sweet sickly odor of living death and decay.
What does despair smell like? What do hopes, dreams and fading memories feel like as they slip through your finger ...[text shortened]... right to take your own life be inalienable?
If you could live forever, would you want to?
That being said, I think your post touches on one of the "pyramids" of man's existence. I use the term pyramid to mean touchstone, i.e., a mystery that we've all been exposed to and are equally ineffectual in fully explaining. The sheer and utter indignity of death is a slap in the face of any pride we may have in living.
I was left with the question that if you could have immortality, would you want it?
As another poster already intoned, the question is not if, but where and how. Despite your protestations otherwise, I cannot help but intuit your knowledge that--- while your friend's visible manifestation of individual personality comes to an untimely end before your eyes---- you nonetheless understand that he yet lives. As do we all.
And my answer as to whether I'd rather exist or not exist, I will take existence each and every time, regardless the circumstances.
If 40 years isn't enough to have lived a fulfilling life, what is? 70? 100? 1000?
That's similar to the sentiment raised by Modest Mouse in their song,"Ocean Breathes Salty." The right response is to live a life without regret, without a concern for the length of the game. Again, it comes down to a matter of faith: what path do I chose to make such a thing happen? Who do I trust?
If you could live forever, would you wan't to linger in an increasingly decrepit shell?
The current shelf life on these things is limited, and there are no warranties or guarantees implied. You take what you can get.
As memories crumble against the remorseless erosion of time, would life mean anything after all those you love and cherished passed?
If I am left with no one, I'd still have myself.
Should a man be able to choose his passing? Should the right to take your own life be inalienable?
Turn it around: does a man choose his entrance? Once established, isn't his life intended to be without lien?
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Does the perspective to live forever (not dying) strike you as good or bad? Not hard to understand this question.
Edit: If the answer is, as I somehow expect: "that does not happen" then I must say I'm frankly disappointed that you are not able to think about any other reality than the one you live in now. I would not vote for someone who is not able to do some basic abstract reasoning at least.
Originally posted by orion25Quite frankly, I can't think of a scenario where I'd want to live forever.
Does the perspective to live forever (not dying) strike you as good or bad? Not hard to understand this question.
Edit: If the answer is, as I somehow expect: "that does not happen" then I must say I'm frankly disappointed that you are not able to think about any other reality than the one you live in now. I would not vote for someone who is not able to do some basic abstract reasoning at least.
Someone once remarked to me that "Infinity is best contemplated when tucked safely in bed with a glass of warm milk and a plate full of hot chocolate chip cookies." Similarly, eternity is a mind blowingly long time and living forever could easily be seen as a punishment rather than a reward don't you think.
Your edit implies, if I'm reading it correctly, that you would not vote for a politician that does not believe in a higher being/the afterlife? Is that correct? I would challenge you on this given that if one has used "abstract reasoning" in consideration of argument that an afterlife exists and concluded that such an argument is not valid would you still eliminate them as a candidate (I have no idea why voting, etc... has even entered into this discussion by the way. Perhaps you should elaborate).
Originally posted by Hand of HecateAh. I had interpreted it as disdaining someone who can't answer a simple "what if" question because they lack the abstract reasoning and imagination, like many posters here. It's far easier to dismiss something out of hand than to think about it.
Quite frankly, I can't think of a scenario where I'd want to live forever.
Someone once remarked to me that "Infinity is best contemplated when tucked safely in bed with a glass of warm milk and a plate full of hot chocolate chip cookies." Similarly, eternity is a mind blowingly long time and living forever could easily be seen as a punishment r ...[text shortened]... etc... has even entered into this discussion by the way. Perhaps you should elaborate).
Originally posted by pawnhandlerYes, that's what I meant. The reason I brought up politics is politicians also refuse to answer questions...
Ah. I had interpreted it as disdaining someone who can't answer a simple "what if" question because they lack the abstract reasoning and imagination, like many posters here. It's far easier to dismiss something out of hand than to think about it.
As for the topic itself I agree with HoH, eternity is very very long. I don't think I could live for that long. Even if would remain with my perfect youth, whatever that is, forever. Experiences would be trapped still so at least in mind I would be, literally, ancient.
This implies remembering all suffering from all times I lived. The older you get, the more you know. Is this good? I don't think so. Knowing is the goal we live for every day, looking for knowledge, is, then, youth. This is the reason (most) elderly aren't as lively - they know, they have experience. This means, that, even if my body remains young, I will still have the same attitudes as if I were really old. I don't want to live after my youth has expired and my liveliness is gone.
Originally posted by Hand of HecateJust ask yourself this question? If you were a caveman and were granted immortality, would you want to be around in this society? Surely you would either be ostracized for not being "one of us", or scared away to live in complete isolation from the rest of the world while constantly being on the run.
I visited a nursing home the other day to see a sick friend stricken with ALS.
The smell always leaves a lasting impression. Slightly chemical, cleaners and solvents masking an almost sweet sickly odor of living death and decay.
What does despair smell like? What do hopes, dreams and fading memories feel like as they slip through your finger ...[text shortened]... right to take your own life be inalienable?
If you could live forever, would you want to?
I don't want to live forever, just long enough to accomplish things I would like to do while I am able to do them.
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Originally posted by Hand of HecateAs usual, a thread that could have been good is ruined by GB and VR's litter.
I visited a nursing home the other day to see a sick friend stricken with ALS.
The smell always leaves a lasting impression. Slightly chemical, cleaners and solvents masking an almost sweet sickly odor of living death and decay.
What does despair smell like? What do hopes, dreams and fading memories feel like as they slip through your finger right to take your own life be inalienable?
If you could live forever, would you want to?
I won't read through it and if I didn't respect you like I do I would probably not leave a post, but here's my ten cents, because when people talk about death, I cannot help but share my thoughts on the matter:
Nursing homes do the job we can't/won't do. It is especially difficult when you see a non-elderly/really ill person living out their last days there. I know what I'm talking about from past experience in emergency field work. We went to nursing homes all the time to resuscitate old people when they tried to just simply die and the younger ones when they dared to succumb to one disease or condition or another. Sorry places indeed but they are necessary in society. It's plainly true.
I saw children in places like this but they were just kids. Everywhere. Instead of old people. They were cheerfully decorated places for the "worst" case children. Thankfully, there are few.
Death is not a grandiose or even a spiritual experience when you see it several times. It's a very physical transformation and in some cases, a battle between one world and another. I used to imagine the pathology going on in people's bodies so that I could remain inside my mind, calm enough to do my work. Later, after someone died, I wondered all the same things you mention here at some point or another and going further, I wondered this: I could break things down to physiological processes because of my beliefs easily enough, but when someone was dead for a few minutes right in front of me and then moments later, back to life, breathing, the shine back in their iris, the color back in their face and their pores infused with whatever that is that makes the difference between a dead face and a live face.....I wondered: where the hell did they go? Anywhere? I wanted to say, "buddy, you were just dead."
Death is like a doorway.
I will not say it challenged my beliefs about souls, spirits, religious matters, the existence of God or anything else. It reinforced what I believed to be true as I know it. The rest I don't mind not knowing without proof.
What is a full life? I don't know. When you're loved and love. Short or long.
If I died right now, I would regret a few things but I'm a basement dweller. I dwell on things. I don't think that's a good thing.
I would not wonder about God, no. I've made up my mind about that. Good and bad doesn't really make sense in my mind, it is all relative and for me, not a big deal.
I would probably tell the people I have been unable to achieve the kind of closeness I desire with how much I truly loved and valued them.
I think we should be able to choose our own demise if we are terminally ill or very, very old and decrepit, yes.
If I could live forever, I would certainly think carefully on the opportunity. My loved ones would all surely die around me, often. Forever is a long time on the mind...but then, who knows? If one could live forever, wouldn't one develop a more evolved brain and new pathways for dealing with memory, emotional pain, physical pain, hardships, change, etc? I think so and I think I would probably opt to live forever simply for the chance to see what happens to humanity.
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Originally posted by Very RustyVR, in Oregon, thankfully, we are allowed to choose when we die (with conditions pending). Hopefully the Bible bangers will not yank that right to make that decision. They constantly are. On two seperate votes we have voted in the right to die with dignity. Only to have those who feel they must make decisions for others bring it to another vote and they are threatening to do it again. It goes against their religion, not mine.
Who did you make a deal with to be able to choose when and in what manner you die? 🙂
Thanks for todays laughs!
I want the right to choose. If they are afraid of the decisions to be made then they do not have to make them, but I still want the option.
We are allowed to be kinder to our animals than ourselves. I don't get it...
Originally posted by SunburntIt is litter because we do not agree, or because you do not believe in God.
As usual, a thread that could have been good is ruined by GB and VR's litter.
I won't read through it and if I didn't respect you like I do I would probably not leave a post, but here's my ten cents, because when people talk about death, I cannot help but share my thoughts on the matter:
Nursing homes do the job we can't/won't do. It is especially di ...[text shortened]... pt to live forever simply for the chance to see what happens to humanity.
I will never try to make you believe in God, but don't try and put down my religion by calling it litter.
I had a Grandmother growing up as a boy who was dying of cancer the doctors of that time sent her home and gave her two weeks to live. She ended up living for 3 years. Even though I was only a boy at the time I could see her suffering, but she always put on a smile and never complained.
Two days before she passed away. She had a chat with me, which I still remember to this day. She told me that her time left was short, and for me not to cry for her because she would not feel pain anymore and would be in heaven with God & would watch me from heaven.
She was one of the strongest women I have ever known in my life. I think that her belief in God is what helped to carry on longer than had been expected. She also had her good days during this time. We laughed and sang songs, and she told me stories. I was very happy for the time I got to spend with her.
Originally posted by SunburntI like this post. Perhaps more for its rambling nature than anything else. It reflects much of the chaotic feelings I have towards death.
As usual, a thread that could have been good is ruined by GB and VR's litter.
I won't read through it and if I didn't respect you like I do I would probably not leave a post, but here's my ten cents, because when people talk about death, I cannot help but share my thoughts on the matter:
Nursing homes do the job we can't/won't do. It is especially di ...[text shortened]... pt to live forever simply for the chance to see what happens to humanity.
Originally posted by Very RustyShe was one of the strongest women I have ever known in my life. I think that her belief in God is what helped to carry on longer than had been expected. She also had her good days during this time. We laughed and sang songs, and she told me stories. I was very happy for the time I got to spend with her.
It is litter because we do not agree, or because you do not believe in God.
I will never try to make you believe in God, but don't try and put down my religion by calling it litter.
I had a Grandmother growing up as a boy who was dying of cancer the doctors of that time sent her home and gave her two weeks to live. She ended up living for 3 years. E ...[text shortened]... and sang songs, and she told me stories. I was very happy for the time I got to spend with her.
What's a favorite story. My grandfather used to share stories with me of Sinbad the sailor. Good memories.