Originally posted by DeepfaultI think people will use what you said as a kind of after-the-fact excuse. I don't think the people (with a few exceptions) were joking. I was just reading something about this being similar to terrorist charges which didnt have even an ounce of sarcasm anywhere to be found. Please keep in mind we are talking about using chess software to generate optimum moves, and it's being likened to car bombs. Perhaps you're just a better adjusted member of society than some, and are capable of distancing yourself from the issue, but I don't think much humor has been present in this thread. And this makes me sad, seeing as shav posted here :'(
Discussion and conflict is part of the fun of the forums.
I for one feel only amusement and enjoyment when I post here, generally no matter how strongly worded my posts.
I think perhaps you are empathising too strongly with imagined strong emotions that may not exist.
Perhaps we should all put, strength of feeling indicators on our postings.
Bu ...[text shortened]... o live in now that the RHP route to vent his spleen has gone from his angry life forever.
;-)
Originally posted by shavixmirI can't believe Moldy got 16 rec's for being rude about Shav's point.
I'm just horrified at the link at the start of this thread. It's so indecent I've decided to assault all and everyone who takes my anti-fancy.
Shav's post was ambiguous - was he horrified at the content of the link? or that someone posted the link in the forums?
The information is out there, gloating over cheats is poor manners. Never speak ill of the departed, for they cannot defend themselves (although exy tried).
A lot of people have broken some aspect of the TOS at some point from abusiveness, to commenting on a game in progress.
Engine users might be the lowest of the low currently but I doubt many players here are perfect.
Originally posted by DeepfaultHow pathetic that someone on an internet chess site who has never met me presumes to have some insight on how I conduct myself in my actual life.
Discussion and conflict is part of the fun of the forums.
I for one feel only amusement and enjoyment when I post here, generally no matter how strongly worded my posts.
I think perhaps you are empathising too strongly with imagined strong emotions that may not exist.
Perhaps we should all put, strength of feeling indicators on our postings.
Bu ...[text shortened]... o live in now that the RHP route to vent his spleen has gone from his angry life forever.
;-)
Originally posted by Moldy CrowVery good post Moldy!
The logic trap that many have fallen into in this debate is the comparison to governments (democratic in nature). But this is a private site . It isn't as much like government ; insuring rights and liberties , protection citizens from outside aggressors , building and maintaining infrastructer . It's more like a very large party . Russ is our host , thi ...[text shortened]... o , to paraphrase Eric Cartman from South Park - "Screw you guys , I'm going to play chess ".
Taking your party analogy further though, suppose Russ's party was decadently successful, i.e. nobody ever went home, the party continued for months with people crashing in various places around Russ's estate. Then, this extended-Woodstock would begin to change; people would feel less like guests and develop more of a sense of community, and feel entitled to some say in how the party is run.
Obviously Russ could call the cops and pull the plug on the party at any time. BUT, if he had some vested interest in having the party continue, it would be beneficial to foster the sense of community.
Anyway, I'm totally in favor of throwing out the cheats. I also wanted to point out that the societal structure at RHP is complicated, and interesting.
Party on Russ!
Originally posted by Moldy CrowIf someone gets thrown out of a party, the host will them why as in what specifically they did to warrant being tossed. The person will generally have a chance to discuss the matter with the host. No such opportunity is given those who are thrown out of this "party". That still seems fundamentally unfair to me though I have no doubt that unrepentant engine users should be tossed. If you were at a party and the host said "We're throwing you out for stealing", I assume you would want a specific accusation concerning what exactly you stole and why the host thinks you stole it. That seems only common sense and fairness.
The logic trap that many have fallen into in this debate is the comparison to governments (democratic in nature). But this is a private site . It isn't as much like government ; insuring rights and liberties , protection citizens from outside aggressors , building and maintaining infrastructer . It's more like a very large party . Russ is our host , thi ...[text shortened]... o , to paraphrase Eric Cartman from South Park - "Screw you guys , I'm going to play chess ".
Originally posted by no1marauderThere is no "party'. It's an internet chess site. The analogy is flawed.
If someone gets thrown out of a party, the host will them why as in what specifically they did to warrant being tossed. The person will generally have a chance to discuss the matter with the host. No such opportunity is given those who are thrown out of this "party". That still seems fundamentally unfair to me though I have no doubt that unrepentant en ...[text shortened]... actly you stole and why the host thinks you stole it. That seems only common sense and fairness.
If the moderators find evidence that convinces them of unfair practices, the person goes. The administration has no desire to ban people, its bad publicity plus they're losing a paying customer in the case of subscribers. Look at all the fuss thats been kicked up. They wouldn't ban someone unless they really had to. That logic should be enough to stop the whole argument.
Someone, anyone, please post something worth reading.
Originally posted by Moldy CrowInteresting point...
..... It's Russ's place , it's Russ's party , Russ's rules . ...
In any new social set up we define it by drawing comparisons with previous ones we have experienced.
I drew the comparision with democracies and govermental systems because it appealled to me.
Your comparison to a party also appeals, although I do not think it appliesany better.
Ultimately it is a new social form, we buy the service under certain rules. Nearer to conumer-supplier then anything else.
In any consumer- supplier relationship fair play should still prevail. Just because you are selling something does not give you the right to be a dictator... that way leads to microsoft, mega corporations and the end of freedom another way.
We can indeed choose not to participate by going to another site, like we could choose not to use Bill's products, but hell we can also fight from within to make Bill deliver his products and expend his power in a fairer way.
I want to make it absolutely clear i am not comparing Russ to Bill in anyway... merely chewing the conceptual fat.
I still think a 'Crime and Punishment Forum' would be intensly amusing and probably bring fame upon the site.
Originally posted by blitzkrieg33Obviously you haven't bothered to follow the whole story from the furor that led to the creation of the Game Mods in the first place. The existence of the Game Mods came about through user insistence that they be put in place. That being so, it is totally appropriate for the community to comment on their work product.
There is no "party'. It's an internet chess site. The analogy is flawed.
If the moderators find evidence that convinces them of unfair practices, the person goes. The administration has no desire to ban people, its bad publicity plus they're losing a paying customer in the case of subscribers. Look at all the fuss thats been kicked up. They would ...[text shortened]... d be enough to stop the whole argument.
Someone, anyone, please post something worth reading.
If you don't find the comments in this thread worth reading, don't read them.
Originally posted by no1marauderN01 Your still here!
How pathetic that someone on an internet chess site who has never met me presumes to have some insight on how I conduct myself in my actual life.
I thought you had gone for good, or so you were planning to do last time we exchanged messages.
It seems i must apologise again for annoying you, but i was not really refering to you as an individual, rather you as a concept.
A legendary and HISTORICAL concept.
I am more then happy to see the legend lives on and smile widely as I type.
Originally posted by DeepfaultPersonal circumstances made it desirable that I play in the finals of the Monster of Rock tournament; I was ill for a couple of weeks and essentially bedridden. Whether I'll remain after I finish those games is something I haven't decided; I'm playing more at timed sites like FICS and the USCL now. I still like to weigh in on the Game Mod situation since I was one of the ones most vocal regarding engine users and the need to reduce engine use here.
N01 Your still here!
I thought you had gone for good, or so you were planning to do last time we exchanged messages.
It seems i must apologise again for annoying you, but i was not really refering to you as an individual, rather you as a concept.
A legendary and HISTORICAL concept.
I am more then happy to see the legend lives on and smile widely as I type.
Originally posted by no1marauderYep totally agree...
If someone gets thrown out of a party, the host will them why as in what specifically they did to warrant being tossed. The person will generally have a chance to discuss the matter with the host. No such opportunity is given those who are thrown out of this "party". That still seems fundamentally unfair to me though I have no doubt that unrepentant en ...[text shortened]... actly you stole and why the host thinks you stole it. That seems only common sense and fairness.
In ANY social group, Party, Consumer-Supplier Relationship, Democracy or Chess site, summary justice without appeal or discussion is generally frowned upon.
I would also point out that despite anything the entertainment value of the forums would shoot up several notches if we had the ability to discuss with the accused their crimes.
Then again thinking from the other way they would become dissidents and trouble makers with little loyalty to the site and perhaps stir up more trouble then it is worth.
No wait... I am thinking like a bureaucrat let them have their day we are robust enough to take it.
Originally posted by no1marauderConsider my vote to be always that you remain No1.
Personal circumstances made it desirable that I play in the finals of the Monster of Rock tournament; I was ill for a couple of weeks and essentially bedridden. Whether I'll remain after I finish those games is something I haven't decided; I'm playing more at timed sites like FICS and the USCL now. I still like to weigh in on the Game Mod situation si ...[text shortened]... I was one of the ones most vocal regarding engine users and the need to reduce engine use here.
If democracy is to prevail.
😉
