Personal Reality Thread

@indonesia-phil said
Okay, but why would we be interested in the views of somebody we don't know the identity of, and are not being allowed to know, (particularly since he has described the person in such glowing terms) unless there is some accompanying commentary?

We all, after all, know people who have opinions.

If you don't want to take a look at the "personal reality" divegeester is describing ~ an increasingly common template of notions and theories, especially in the USA, if you ask me ~ I don't see there being any onus on you to comment.

Do you need divegeester to make up a name and tell you what it is ĺbefore you can say anything about the Alex Jones-esque "personal reality" package he is describing, as received from the person he is describing?

@indonesia-phil said
Okay, but why would we be interested in the views of somebody we don't know the identity of.

I don't know. I cannot speak for you. If you are not interested, then you are not interested.

Responsibility resolves the unruly recalcitrant riddle (of life's slings and arrows).

Elaboration:

1. There is no such thing as freewill; "freewill" is a grammatical fiction. But there is responsibility.

2a. You are responsible for who and what you are.
2b. There is no alternative you you might have been instead.

3a. Freedom is not having alternatives; freedom is taking responsibility, and being aware of taking responsibility, for who and what you are. You can't stop falling, but you can dive.
3b. Take responsibility for what you do; take responsibility for what you do not do.
3c. If you can't, get help.

4a. You are responsible for asking for help if you need it, but no one is obligated to provide it. If offered, accept.
4b. If someone asks you for help, consider whether the help he really needs is the help you can actually give. If not, that is not your responsibility, politely decline.

5. Your purpose in life is to discover your purpose in life and then devote your efforts to that purpose. This may or may not make you happy, but it will give your life purpose.

6. The fruit of life is experience, not happiness. Happiness is an epiphenomenon: if it comes, accept it, if it does not, accept that, too.

The above list summaries the reality I inhabit. I further believe that those who fulfil that list will find, as I have done, that the riddle of life has resolved itself.

@petewxyz said
It left everybody speechless, but maybe that's part of the plan??

There was no plan, in fact had I had a plan then I wouldn't had been left with the feeling that sharing that personal reality of a person I know would have been a waste.

@moonbus said
Responsibility resolves the unruly recalcitrant riddle (of life's slings and arrows).

Elaboration:

1. There is no such thing as freewill; "freewill" is a grammatical fiction. But there is responsibility.

2a. You are responsible for who and what you are.
2b. There is no alternative you you might have been instead.

3a. Freedom is not having alternatives; fre ...[text shortened]... t those who fulfil that list will find, as I have done, that the riddle of life has resolved itself.

Did you copy/paste this from somewhere?

@very-rusty said
Yes, that does make a lot of sense and sound logical, I was though talking about somone who is NOT GUILTY at all, you are talking about different circumstances. You do have an excellent point of course.

In my opinion at least in Canada there are more innocent people in jails than guilty people walking the streets, although that indeed can happen when you lots of money and good lawyer(s)!

-VR

It takes you into what statisticians call type 1 and type 2 errors. There are always false positives and false negatives since no system is perfect. So if there are always innocent people in jail and guilty people walking the streets, the question is where does your society want to set the threshold? You can only decrease one group by increasing the other.

What amuses me is when politicians say they are both tough on law and order (reducing the number of guilty on the streets) and also reducing the amount of tax money spent on the prison system. Clearly you can't both shift the threshold towards more convictions and reduce the spend but that combination seems to get wheeled out all around the world!

@divegeester said
Did you copy/paste this from somewhere?

No.

@petewxyz said
It takes you into what statisticians call type 1 and type 2 errors. There are always false positives and false negatives since no system is perfect. So if there are always innocent people in jail and guilty people walking the streets, the question is where does your society want to set the threshold? You can only decrease one group by increasing the other.

Yes, I know all about false positives and false negatives, but when you send someone back into the work force with a false negative you are putting all those people they are working with at risk. I think the time should be a little longer for waiting period after you've already had the C-19. What that time frame would be is what they are working on, but in the mean time people are spreading the Virus not even thinking they have it. As you know this is a Killer Virus not just a simple flu.

-VR

@moonbus said
No.

Scouts honour?

-VR

@Very-Rusty

"The fruit of life is experience, not happiness," is quoted from Schopenhauer.

"If you're falling, dive," is a commonplace.

'On the East Coast of America is the Statue of Liberty. On the West Coast there should be a Statue of Responsibility,' is a paraphrase from Viktor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning," which meant a lot to me.

The rest are my own thoughts.

@very-rusty said
Yes, I know all about false positives and false negatives, but when you send someone back into the work force with a false negative you are putting all those people they are working with at risk. I think the time should be a little longer for waiting period after you've already had the C-19. What that time frame would be is what they are working on, but in the mean time pe ...[text shortened]... rus not even thinking they have it. As you know this is a Killer Virus not just a simple flu.

-VR

I completely agree with you VR. More importantly so does the open letter below.

Population Health Sciences Institute
Faculty of Medical Sciences
Newcastle University
Centre for Life, Times Square
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 4EP
www.ncl.ac.uk
The University of Newcastle Upon Tyne trading as Newcastle University
VAT No GB499 6724 70

The Rt Hon Matt Hancock MP
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
By email
07 April 2020

Dear Mr Hancock

COVID-19 – UK guidance on self-isolation

We, the undersigned, are concerned with regards to the discrepancy between UK and WHO guidance on the period of self-isolation following symptom onset and/or lab diagnosis with SARS-CoV-2, as well as the guidance on symptoms requiring self-isolation.

Current UK guidance recommends seven days of self-isolation from symptom onset; the WHO recommends 14 days of self-isolation after symptom resolution.
NHS England guidelines state: “If you have symptoms of coronavirus infection…. do not leave the house for 7 days from when your symptoms started.”
The WHO recommendations state: “For mild laboratory-confirmed patients who are cared for at home, to be released from home isolation, cases must test negative using PCR testing twice from samples collected at least 24 hours apart. Where testing is not possible, WHO recommends that confirmed patients remain isolated for an additional two weeks after symptoms resolve.”

The available literature is suggestive of a risk of infection beyond seven days from symptom onset. This has been reported to range from day 10 of symptoms1 to up to 24 days after symptom onset.2 A study published in The Lancet found the longest observed duration of viral shedding to be 37 days after symptoms onset in one participant.3 We therefore wish to know the rationale behind the UK’s seven day self-isolation guidance, and whether there are plans for PCR testing to be used to determine when individuals can leave self-isolation. PCR testing is available across numerous public, private and academic institutions in the UK. We appreciate the logistical and administrative hurdles that must be overcome to utilise these facilities, along with the global supply chain issues. However, given the importance of PCR testing as a key element in the strategy to navigate away from the need for further enforced lockdowns, we request more granular detail on your five pillar plan, specifically with regards to PCR testing capacity including how much of the 100k target will be PCR tests (given that we need PCR, rather than serological-based testing for the ‘test and trace’ approach).

We are also concerned about the narrow spectrum of symptoms the UK is using as an indication
for self-isolation. Initial data demonstrate that other common symptoms include sore throat,
fatigue, shortness of breath, and myalgia and we are aware that other countries are using a
broader range of symptoms for self-isolation.
We therefore request that the evidence base informing the UK government strategy on selfisolation
(both symptoms requiring self-isolation and length of time for self-isolation) be made
publicly available, and that more granular detail be provided on your five pillar plan, specifically
with regards to PCR testing.

We look forward to your reply.
Yours sincerely
Prof Allyson Pollock BSc, MB ChB, MSc, FFPH, FRCGP, FRCP(Ed)
Professor of Public Health
Co-director, Newcastle University Centre of Research Excellence in Regulatory Science

1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2196-x
2 https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-Discharge-criteria.pdf
3 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30566-3/fulltext

@very-rusty said
Yes, I know all about false positives and false negatives, but when you send someone back into the work force with a false negative you are putting all those people they are working with at risk. I think the time should be a little longer for waiting period after you've already had the C-19. What that time frame would be is what they are working on, but in the mean time pe ...[text shortened]... rus not even thinking they have it. As you know this is a Killer Virus not just a simple flu.

-VR

TU from me on this post, Rusty.

@moonbus said
TU from me on this post, Rusty.

TU?

-VR

@very-rusty said
TU?

-VR

Au lieu de...vous. Well maybe. 😲

@very-rusty said
TU?

-VR

Thumbs Up.