General Forum

General Forum

  1. Standard memberFMF
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    28 Mar '20 10:141 edit
    Rules: either [1] Make claims that are steeped in a bizarre personal reality that you never describe but others try to explore AND [2] do this with conspicuous attempts at alliteration and onomatopoeia for purely literary reasons, OR failing that [3] just chat about "personal realities".
  2. YNWA
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    28 Mar '20 11:271 edit
    @fmf said
    Rules: either [1] Make claims that are steeped in a bizarre personal reality that you never describe but others try to explore AND [2] do this with conspicuous attempts at alliteration and onomatopoeia for purely literary reasons, OR failing that [3] just chat about "personal realities".
    Everybody sees the world from their own unique perspective. These are some odd twist of fate that shaped my personal reality. My father, a devote atheist grew up in a Quaker family in a period of history that made that a central theme. His father, a conscientious objector in the first world war became disabled with chlorine emphysema after doing ambulance work. My father's older brother was imprisoned in the second war before doing electrical work down the mines of South Wales. My father was the youngest and by the time his national service came around the first footage of concentration camps came out. He rejected the idea that you should always refuse to fight and did his service in North Africa. I think that must have informed the certainty of his rejection of religion and of signing up blindly to belief systems although I suspect he would say he was an atheist for other reasons attributing it to being a firm believer in logical argument.

    So if you are brought up by a devote atheist who is certain he is right you just hear of the absurdity of religious belief if the subject comes up and you have no personal connection to it. It looks like a collection of odd stories perhaps put together by people who want to pass on discussion of morality and spiritual issues through metaphor and the accessible medium of story telling, but then maybe people need a valid way of doing that?

    All the certainty made me value uncertainty and avoiding believing something just because you define yourself as a member of a group with common beliefs but the paradox is that atheism is one such thing. I like the ideas from Buddhism that are woven into Dialectical Behaviour Therapy but again the paradox is that if you actually define yourself as a Buddhist you are not really following the message. Xen Buddhism says that for every thesis you can construct antithesis, but to move closer to truth you must find the middle ground between the two, but the middle ground is now a thesis to which there is antithesis so perhaps it is accepting the implied infinite journey that never arrives at truth and certainty that is the common thread of reality? So is my reality a belief in nothing or a belief in something? If you stopped reading this through boredom some time ago you were probably wise but you never got to read of your wisdom from me!
  3. Joined
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    28 Mar '20 11:57
    1. Free will is an illusion
    2. The idea of "I could have said or done something different" in any given situation is preposterous. No one in the history of the world has ever said or done "something different". They did or said what they did.
    3. Everyone is doing the best they can. Sometimes the best they can is crap. These two assertions are not mutually exclusive.
  4. Standard memberbadradger
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    28 Mar '20 12:00
    @hope said
    1. Free will is an illusion
    2. The idea of "I could have said or done something different" in any given situation is preposterous. No one in the history of the world has ever said or done "something different". They did or said what they did.
    3. Everyone is doing the best they can. Sometimes the best they can is crap. These two assertions are not mutually exclusive.
    Yeah agreed Free will is not equal with freedom
  5. Standard memberFMF
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    28 Mar '20 12:21
    @hope said
    No one in the history of the world has ever said or done "something different".
    Trying to prove this statement wrong might make an interesting and never-before-seen thread in its own right.
  6. Joined
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    28 Mar '20 12:24
    #3: I am getting older.

    🤔 😲
  7. Standard memberFMF
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    28 Mar '20 12:25
    @petewxyz said
    Everybody sees the world from their own unique perspective. These are some odd twist of fate that shaped my personal reality. My father, a devote atheist grew up in a Quaker family in a period of history that made that a central theme. His father, a conscientious objector in the first world war became disabled with chlorine emphysema after doing ambulance work. My father's o ...[text shortened]... rough boredom some time ago you were probably wise but you never got to read of your wisdom from me!
    This is an interesting autobiographical marker you have laid down here. And the alliteration and onomatopoeia, as requested, was a nice touch.
  8. YNWA
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    28 Mar '20 12:33
    @hope said
    1. Free will is an illusion
    2. The idea of "I could have said or done something different" in any given situation is preposterous. No one in the history of the world has ever said or done "something different". They did or said what they did.
    3. Everyone is doing the best they can. Sometimes the best they can is crap. These two assertions are not mutually exclusive.
    We can only have had one existence up to now, but does that prove fatalism and does it really mean our consciousness is just a passenger.

    I really like the book Consciousness by Christof Koch. Aside from a really good examination of the fact that there is no neuroanatomical understanding of the seat of consciousness (every understood area of brain being subservient to it rather than housing it) it points out that we do not start our thought processes in the areas of brain that use verbal language. So incredibly when we are experiencing thinking in verbal language we are experiencing it after it has already happened. Like when you know you have had a good idea but you are waiting to find the words to best express it. So if in verbal thought we are experiencing ourselves after we have already happened how much influence on ourselves do we have?
  9. Joined
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    28 Mar '20 12:35
    @petewxyz said
    We can only have had one existence up to now, but does that prove fatalism and does it really mean our consciousness is just a passenger.

    I really like the book Consciousness by Christof Koch. Aside from a really good examination of the fact that there is no neuroanatomical understanding of the seat of consciousness (every understood area of brain being subservient to it ...[text shortened]... re experiencing ourselves after we have already happened how much influence on ourselves do we have?
    To respond to your first bit in your "latest" response. What if you believe in reincarnation? Over and over and over again. 🤔
  10. Subscriberrookie54
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    28 Mar '20 12:39
    @fmf said
    [3] just chat about "personal realities".
    vietnam
    villainy
    vanity
    verisimilitude
    veracity


    i am
  11. YNWA
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    28 Mar '20 12:44
    @great-big-stees said
    To respond to your first bit in your "latest" response. What if you believe in reincarnation? Over and over and over again. 🤔
    I guess I should have said one thread of existence, however many incarnations that thread may have included. I suppose you might believe your incarnations have existed in parallel living different possibilities and versions of the thread? Might they even then meet each other or is that a reach for the antipsychotic meds moment???
  12. Standard memberFMF
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    28 Mar '20 12:45
    @rookie54 said
    vietnam
    villainy
    vanity
    verisimilitude
    veracity


    i am
    fulmination
    fueding
    fixations
    flannel
    furtiveness
    free will [or maybe not]

    forums
  13. Joined
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    28 Mar '20 13:12
    @petewxyz

    Yes, excellent.

    The hard problem of consciousness appears to be unsolvable. I will definitely find that book - thank you.

    -hope
  14. Joined
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    28 Mar '20 13:33
    @petewxyz said
    I guess I should have said one thread of existence, however many incarnations that thread may have included. I suppose you might believe your incarnations have existed in parallel living different possibilities and versions of the thread? Might they even then meet each other or is that a reach for the antipsychotic meds moment???
    If it happens (to me) I will certainly apprise you of the "fact".
  15. Gothenburg
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    28 Mar '20 13:36
    @Great-Big-Stees

    We are all getting older. How can we not? 😏
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