On a day to day basis, do you have strategies pre-planned for the protection of yourself and your families against the bad guys that are out there?
burglary situation? its 3am and you awaken to hear noises. one or more intruders is in the house. whats your plan? do you have one?
getting attacked by a large dog whilst walking with friends through a park....same thing, whats your strategy?
in a bar, getting approached by an agressive, 16-stone plus, drunken idiot....thoughts?
self-protection is a hobby of mine, and so i guess im interested to know other's thoughts on these types of things.
Originally posted by Mr AverageI prefer not to waste my life being in fear of mights, ifs and maybes.
On a day to day basis, do you have strategies pre-planned for the protection of yourself and your families against the bad guys that are out there?
burglary situation? its 3am and you awaken to hear noises. one or more intruders is in the house. whats your plan? do you have one?
getting attacked by a large dog whilst walking with friends through a p ...[text shortened]... hobby of mine, and so i guess im interested to know other's thoughts on these types of things.
Originally posted by Mr AverageI think about this stuff. You'd expect that.
On a day to day basis, do you have strategies pre-planned for the protection of yourself and your families against the bad guys that are out there?
burglary situation? its 3am and you awaken to hear noises. one or more intruders is in the house. whats your plan? do you have one?
getting attacked by a large dog whilst walking with friends through a p ...[text shortened]... hobby of mine, and so i guess im interested to know other's thoughts on these types of things.
I accept it isn't healthy to obsess over probables / possibles, particularly if statistically they are very unlikely to happen.
People that do have plans do tend to survive better though.
Burglar - in the UK, statistically it will be an unarmed teenager, or group of teenagers. I'd be loud, direct and aggressive, and i'd take them on. That would either be scaring them away, or if I could assess what I was up against, taking them on.
My opening gambit would be to call out (at the top of my voice) for the other males in the house. They don't exist, but shouting "Dad, George, quick there's someone downstairs", followed by a cacophony of banging and door opening, would panic any burglar. They are always sh** scared too.
Dog, we do a bit of training in the job. If the attack is on, there is no way to "not be prey and not be a threat", so I'd fight. I had to do this once. It did let go, but it won, and I hope it never happens again because we weren't meant to fight dogs and they are better at it than us.
The drunken idiot? Make it hard for him to be aggressive. Assertive but non confrontational body language. Stand your ground, but keep repeating simple messages. "I dont want trouble. I'm just having a quiet drink"
But taking care not to be submissive - this often provokes violence. And being ready to fight.
In all situations, my aim is not to allow them to develop into a fight or flight confrontation. But once it does, I am quite prepared to run if the odds aren't in my favour. But in the scenarios you give, only in the last one can you hope to run, so I'd have to fight. Or at least stand up for myself.
You?
Originally posted by Policestatein another forum [combatives] this burglary question was asked, and I have set out below the answer given by Mick Coup [C2 Core Combatives]...
I think about this stuff. You'd expect that.
I accept it isn't healthy to obsess over probables / possibles, particularly if statistically they are very unlikely to happen.
People that do have plans do tend to survive better though.
Burglar - in the UK, statistically it will be an unarmed teenager, or group of teenagers. I'd be loud, direct and ...[text shortened]... you hope to run, so I'd have to fight. Or at least stand up for myself.
You?
The question is very general, so then the answer has to be too - if we are talking about a 'hot' burglary/noises-in-the-night scenario, the last thing that should be done is to escalate a trespass and theft into an assault and/or much worse. My standard advice, in general, is to secure all loved ones into one lockable room, that is equipped with some form of cellular communication, with strict instructions only to unlock the door if you specifically tell them NOT to do so - in case of forced duress - and position yourself at the top of the staircase, lights on and noisy, resisting the urge to initially investigate downstairs.
Weapons? Choose something compact enough to be wielded in a confined space - and this includes firearms if these are an option - baseball bats and the like should be avoided, being clumsy and easily grabbed/passed - this includes spears too. Sharp implements are effective for holding bad guys at bay, and a couple of 10" butcher knives, or claw hammers, or one of each wielded by someone determined to defend his family stood firm at the top of a narrow staircase would certainly deter me, especially if the police had been called, the clock was ticking and nothing was stopping me leaving.
Points to note: If someone is in your house stealing, they don't want to hurt you - they are there for the goodies - but put yourself between them and their way out, they will shift focus - no DVD/XBOX/Laptop is worth getting jumped by an unseen accomplice, so leave your ego out of it - don't leave your family at their mercy while you bleed out on your hearth rug - creeping around a house looking for bad guys doesn't even work in the movies, protect your family!
If they were in the house to hurt someone in the first place, it's a different story - and a bleak one at that, hopefully you'll get pre-warning as they break-in, but don't count on it - if I'm kicking your door in at 0400 I will be on you in seconds, how awake are you going to be? Common MO is to identify the strongest resistance first - the adult males - and eliminate them asap. Fighting in the dark, from sleep, semi-naked and from your bed is something you should address in training, and weapons access is a nightmare with practice, but non-existant without it.
The real answer to all this has already been remarked upon, whilst the question was specifically aimed - in a general kind of way - at a 'combat/contact management' scenario, the solution always lies with 'threat management' - improve home security to the point where it deters, and re-directs scumbags somewhere else. In other posts I've covered the attack process, and discussed at length the importance of influencing target selection, with yourself as a poor option for a would-be attacker.
If all bets were off, and laws too, a chopped-down 870 with plenty of 00 ammo, white light and laser - backed-up with a high capacity semi-auto loaded with Glaser rounds and a solid fixed-blade would be a good choice for making a stand - but if I was alone and did go hunting the pistol would be the primary option due to manoeverability - if the Rotties and trap-door acid pit hadn't finished the bastards first!
with regards to a bar situation...
My own philosophy for protecting myself with regards to hand2hand combat has been tuned, rewired and changed on an ongoing basis as my learning has progressed. These principles below have beed added to my own self-protection gameplan by listening, reading, reflecting and training with those men who know that of which they speak..
1. avoid conflict [target hardening, practicing awareness skills]
2. see point 1
3. if you have tried to de-escalate or balloon and still conflict is unavoidable, it helps a lot to have a pre-determined line in the sand, which you have decided will be a trigger to attack. Because attacking first makes a lot of difference.
4. Geoff Thompson http://www.geoffthompson.com/listInstructional.asp advocates developing what he calls a 'fence'. This is the concept where hands are raised naturally, as a guard to incoming assaults. The word naturally is KEY...you cant make it obvious what you are doing, and doing it subtly requires practice. Moreover, the raised hands kind of act like an ants feelers. E.g.....your in a bar and someone is getting pushy/loud. If you raise a fence and the individual escalates from arguing to actually making physical contact with your arms, say as if he walks towards you, odds are that unless you do something first, you are going to get hit, it's just a question of when. Someone making contact with you physically, is one step up the ladder from arguing the toss. Some people say if you get touched twice, then you launch, some say go for broke if they touch you once. Some say go for broke without touching. You need to find your own way, one that works for you.
5. Learn pre-attack cues... there are many of them, here is one....perhaps the person threatening you starts to shorten his sentences and goes from saying this and that, to one word answers, or stops speaking completely. Inadvertently signalling that conversation is coming to an end. many more details can be found here... http://sfuk.tripod.com/articles/3secfight.html
6. Attack first if options have run out and continue to attack non stop until the threat is done, then evacuate. Mick Coup of C2 Core Combatives, calls it hitting the go like **** switch. At this point, stop seeing the other person as human, and visualise them as nothing more than meat...something to beat on. Big, small, tatoos, MMA clothes...who cares. When it's time to rock, it's time to rock, and worrying about what he can do to you, does nothing to help you...nothing. See it that he should be worried about you, and train so that your confidence comes from real pressure testing, not watching UFC dvds etc....Attack the head only, with a view to switching his computer off. Break his arm, maybe he keeps coming. Smash his jaw into bits, maybe he keeps coming. Knock him out, he is stopped.
7. train for the above by choosing only a few moves and drilling them repeatedly against fresh air, heavy bags, mitts and live resisting opponents. 100's of fancy moves wont necessarily help. Just shots that count and you can rely on when highly adrenalised, tunnel vision has hit and you have gone shaky....
8. familiarise yourself with adrenaline intimately. When it hits hard, it can make you feel one inch small, and you can shrink, when you really need to roar. De-sensitise by inducing it artificially time and time again in reality based combatives/MMA classes, and fighting back like an animal, anyway.
there is so much more, but I am not experienced enough to talk about it...
Dogs...
Darren Laur kindly posted this in another combatives forum....
Surviving a Dog Attack
As a result of a vicious dog attack here in Victoria not to long ago, I decided to do some research on what I could share with my students should they be confronted with a dog attack. Although there was lots of information on the Internet about this topic (some urban myth), I decided to personally speak with three experts in the field; Sgt Jim Simpson (an ex K-9 handler with our department), and his wife Erin who is a professional civilian K-9 trainer (including protection work) with many many years of experience, as well as one of our animal control officers here in the city, and this is what they had to share with me, combined with some information that I found on the Internet, which they confirmed as desirable:
1) Although when faced with a threatening dog our first instinct is to run, this is something that we do not want to do, why????? , Because it will cause the dog’s prey drive to kick in thus further inviting an attack.
2) Do not talk to the dog in a way that will reveal your own anxiety or stress/fear ( i.e nice doggie, it’s okay, that’s a nice puppy) this will often add fuel to the fire. Instead, remain very calm; appear confident or better yet intimidating. Do not provoke, but present yourself as a force not to mess with. If the dog challenges, challenge back. If the dog continues to move towards you, move at him aggressively shouting “no”, “sit”, “down”, “go home”. All commands that most dogs have heard and that may work to your advantage. By moving towards the dog you are far better prepared for an attack than if your were running away.
3) If the dog does not move forward, move away from a threatening dog, walk backwards for an extended distance, and then turn and walk in the direction that you were intending, constantly checking over your shoulder to ensure the dog is not following.
4) If you can grab an improvised weapon such as a stick, use it like a spear rather than swinging it like a bat, due to the fact that many dogs will be able to evade an arcing swing. Target the throat and ram it in if possible. Also some dogs will retreat if you bend down as if picking us a stone and going through all the motions of throwing it at the dog……or actually do wing one at him.
5) If you have time to remove a jacket or sweater don’t wrap it around your arm, but keep it in your hands to throw over the dogs head and face as they attack. Another option for a jacket was to unzip it, open the jacket out with both hands, (making yourself look much much bigger) and again move aggressively towards the dog thus becoming the attacker.
6) If the dog latches on, use a weapon such as EDC knife (cutting across throat) or strike the dog across the bridge of the nose, but if you can’t do either, really work your thumb and fingers around the dog’s throat and squeeze, you can cut of their air supply and cause them real stress
7) Most, but not all, dogs that are showing aggression, especially if hackles are up, are actuall...
are actually much weaker than they appear and will back down if abruptly challenged. If the dog is a genuinely strong dog, which will not be “scared” off, then one must ENGAGE in the fight. Stop thinking about escaping and think about overpowering taking on the attitude that if someone’s going down, it WILL be the dog.
Get some height. If you have the time and distance, get up on a car roof. Dogs ususally do not like walking up a slippery metal surface
A part of my research for the above posting was to actually quarry for a police dog (100 plus pounds of goal oriented teeth and muscle);
• Several times wearing a full bite suit,
• Several times wearing just a bite sleeve, and
• Several times the handler placed a special type of muzzle on the dog where it could not bite me, but still allowed the dog the ability to attack (me not wearing any bite suit)
Even though I was protected from the dog via a bite suit or bite sleeve, Survival Stress Reaction and most of its effects to the body clicked in upon the dog being sent in to attack, but like any other reality based training, the more familiar I got with how the dog would attack, the better I was able to manage SSR to some degree. Some of the things I empirically experienced:
• When a dog that size hits, it hits like a freight train and unless you have a good foot base, you will likely be knocked to the ground. Thus another reason not to run away from an attacking dog
• When the dog takes hold, it will shake and tug violently not unlike a shark (this is one reason why I now call police dogs land sharks)
• If running away, the dog will usually go after the legs and or buttocks, but if facing the dog it will usually take the closest arm. Again another reason to not run away, and if facing the dog, to keep your strong side back thus protecting your strongest attributes/tools
• Going after the eyes was challenging at best to do, due to the violent shaking and tugging actions that the dog WILL make. I found it easier (but still very challenging) to after the eyes if the dog took an arm, but if it took a leg , hitting the top of the nasal bone was the only viable target
• If the dog broke hold, it would immediately re-engage the closest target it could sink its teeth into until the handler gave the command to out.
After speaking to the experts, I learned that most dogs are not goal oriented and attacked trained, and it is because of this fact that the recommendations in my first posting will “likely” work on most breeds of dogs. To emphasize the points of being aggressive and looking bigger, our ERT team leader has shared with me that there has been a number of calls that they have attended where there was supposed to be a “vicious” trained attack dog (including Pit Bulls), but upon entry, just making lots of noise and being very aggressive was enough to send all these dogs (up to this point in time) to high tail it out of Dodge with their tail tucked between their hind legs.
If, however, you are faced with a professionally trained protection dog that is goal oriented, they will engage with rage no matter how much noise you make, or how intimidating or big you make yourself look. In fact, these types of dogs are specifically trained to ignore these factors through operant conditioning. Thank God these types of dogs are few and far between. Most dogs will attack from a fear base rather than a confident base thus the reason for my original posting.
Originally posted by Scotty70and if you have left your gun at home? :p
Dog...shoot first, ask questions later
Intruder...shoot first,ask questions much later (after you get lawyered up)
Brawler in bar....buy them a beer, crack it over his head, then shoot. then ask questions later..
problems solved..