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Originally posted by no1marauderWhy not it would make for an interesting end game. I personally don't think ikko and Uesugi plan to share this victory, I could be wrong, I just think they have joined forces to get rid of you and once that's done we can all concentrate on unifying Japan.
So you think there's any chance at all that Ikko is going to declare with his vassals and leave Uesugi out? 🙄
I think you're playing like a fool, that's all.
EDIT: Oda jumped from 160 GPV on turn 6 to 185 now. You had more than Ikko than, too.
Basically what you are saying is that Ikko, at some point, will declare war against me. I think you are wrong and if you are right I will recieve 1 turns notice so I will be ok.
I do not fear a fight to the death even if it is my own.
Oda.
Edit: The three of us have been allied since turn 2, any lands that I or the azakura have taken have been ceded to the Ikko monks in return for gold, we have kept the 6 highest value provinces and annexed them. Cash is king.
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Originally posted by cadwahFor the Ikko it sure is. You're fooling yourself if you think that you'll be included in any victory declaration. Ikko won't need to declare war on you; if he and the Uesugi take any significant part of the Kyushu Alliance holdings and/or the remaining bot holdings (particulary if their vassals hand them over every province they gain), they'll be able to declare without fighting their vassals. They need only 1100 GPV and they have 875 already.
Why not it would make for an interesting end game. I personally don't think ikko and Uesugi plan to share this victory, I could be wrong, I just think they have joined forces to get rid of you and once that's done we can all concentrate on unifying Japan.
Basically what you are saying is that Ikko, at some point, will declare war against me. I think you a ...[text shortened]... in return for gold, we have kept the 6 highest value provinces and annexed them. Cash is king.
Here's the victory conditions:
Major and Minor Partners: Victory can be claimed by a coalition of realms. There can be between 1 and 3 victors. There can only be 1 Major Partner. There may be up to 2 Minor Partners (there can be 1 or none too). The Major and Minor partners are determined by the coalition that is declaring victory (the coalition decides this amongst its members). A victory claim is based on the gold value of all provinces owned by the coalition (annexation and province damage does not matter, only ownership and the maximum gold value).
There are 2 requirements for victory:
1) A coalition must control at least 3 of the 6 Major Fiefdoms in the game. These can be seen on the Fiefdoms area of your HQ menu, and can be controlled by any member of the coalition.
2) A coalition declaring victory may have no more than 3 members. The coalition must control provinces worth 650 gold, plus 450 gold for each Minor Partner in the coalition (of course, there must be at least 1 Major Parnter in the coalition). A sole victory would require 650 gold, 1 Major and 1 Minor would require 650+450=1100 gold, and 1 Major and 2 Minors would require 650+450+450=1550 Gold.
The Major Victor is considered the first place winner, the Minor Victor(s) are considered second place winners, and all other surviving realms are ranked depending on their final tally of gold (from provinces controlled). It doesn't matter which coalition declares first, the only thing that matters is the gold value controlled by that coalition (listed for each country in the last message of your Messages screen, in your turnfile). Annexation does not matter, just the total gold of territories controlled. An opposing coalition can block a victory claim. This opposing coalition does not need to meet the victory conditions. To determine if a victory claim is blocked, the gold revenue of each coalition receives a bonus, based on the number of members:
So I ask again:
A lot of vassals helping out the two great powers; do you think any of you will be invited to the final victory?
EDIT: Do the math; Ikko and his vassals have 731 GPV, leaving that coalition a whopping 819 GPV away from victory. With the Uesugi, he's only 225 GPV from a victory declaration. You figure out which is more likely that he's playing for.
Originally posted by no1marauderSo your main gripe is that we are selling conquered provinces to our respective leaders. Ok I think I understand, you are appealing to our sense of fair competition and want us to haul down the alliance from the inside. You want everyone to rise up and stop this alliance from winning the game.
For the Ikko it sure is. You're fooling yourself if you think that you'll be included in any victory declaration. Ikko won't need to declare war on you; if he and the Uesugi take any significant part of the Kyushu Alliance holdings and/or the remaining bot holdings (particulary if their vassals hand them over every province they gain), they'll be able to ...[text shortened]... ng out the two great powers; do you think any of you will be invited to the final victory?
Fair enough, I take your point.
Proclomation- Any vassals found to be treasonous towards the mighty Uesugi/Ikko empire will be dealt with by the sharp end of Oda's katana. That includes you Han Solo... and you chewbacca my hairy bottom-faced chum.
Originally posted by cadwahDo you think anyone is more afraid of you than of Ikko and Uesugi? 🙄
So your main gripe is that we are selling conquered provinces to our respective leaders. Ok I think I understand, you are appealing to our sense of fair competition and want us to haul down the alliance from the inside. You want everyone to rise up and stop this alliance from winning the game.
Fair enough, I take your point.
Proclomation- Any vassals f ...[text shortened]... nd of Oda's katana. That includes you Han Solo... and you chewbacca my hairy bottom-faced chum.
no1's game here is increasing mistrust. You're helping him with these threats.
Originally posted by PalynkaThey're not meant as threats, they are meant as a joke. Of course any player can do as they like that is the beauty of the game.
Do you think anyone is more afraid of you than of Ikko and Uesugi? 🙄
no1's game here is increasing mistrust. You're helping him with these threats.
Originally posted by no1marauderSeveral, but I prefer a simple explanation that doesn't go into considerations about the objectives of each player.
Do you find any flaw in my analysis?
All of the dominated allies have more chance in succeeding to be selected as the third ally than attempting to fight both those nations in a completely suicidal scenario.
Originally posted by PalynkaThe math now says that no "third ally" will be selected. The most any vassal of the two great powers has in gold value is 197. The requirement of a three power victory is 1550 GPV; a two power only 1100 GPV. So the math goes like this:
Several, but I prefer a simple explanation that doesn't go into considerations about the objectives of each player.
All of the dominated allies have more chance in succeeding to be selected as the third ally than attempting to fight both those nations in a completely suicidal scenario.
Uesugi-Ikko alone: 1100 needed, 875 owned, 225 more needed.
Uesugi-Ikko-Third Power: 1550 needed, 1072 owned, 478 more needed.
All you vassals should think about these numbers.
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Originally posted by PalynkaNot so suicidal now that these powers are engaged in a war in the south. All you vassals need to do is start asking for a larger share of the pie. Assert yourselves! The big boys you're grovelling to don't want unrest in the north, believe me.
Several, but I prefer a simple explanation that doesn't go into considerations about the objectives of each player.
All of the dominated allies have more chance in succeeding to be selected as the third ally than attempting to fight both those nations in a completely suicidal scenario.
The levels of loyalty I am seeing are way out of proportion to the chances of victory that the lesser powers have been given.
Do you guys decide not to win at Monopoly because your competition is charming? It makes no sense!
Originally posted by AThousandYoungWhen your explanation makes no sense, maybe it's better to try another one.
Not so suicidal now that these powers are engaged in a war in the south. All you vassals need to do is start asking for a larger share of the pie. Assert yourselves! The big boys you're grovelling to don't want unrest in the north, believe me.
The levels of loyalty I am seeing are way out of proportion to the chances of victory that the lesser powe ...[text shortened]... ou guys decide not to win at Monopoly because your competition is charming? It makes no sense!
Originally posted by PalynkaWhere exactly are the Takeda and Hojo going to expand anyway? The Mogami have only 60 GPV left. Perhaps there are a few independents in the east but there is no way either of you will reach anywhere near the 450 GPV that a minor power needs. So you'll be twiddling your thumbs or be engaged in "battle" with bots while the Ikko and the Uesugi expand to victory. What an inglorious, dishonorable fate!
When your explanation makes no sense, maybe it's better to try another one.
Originally posted by no1marauderIt is very interesting how you are continually trying to break our alliances with talk of victory conditions ; yet in theNapoleonic game you and l played in it was you trying to make excuses to others as to why l shouldnt break my alliance with you as l could not be part of your victory with Sweden. Do you remember why l said l wouldnt?
Where exactly are the Takeda and Hojo going to expand anyway? The Mogami have only 60 GPV left. Perhaps there are a few independents in the east but there is no way either of you will reach anywhere near the 450 GPV that a minor power needs. So you'll be twiddling your thumbs or be engaged in "battle" with bots while the Ikko and the Uesugi expand to victory. What an inglorious, dishonorable fate!
There are many reasons (obviously you cannot understand them ) for wanting to play. Anyone who was to turn against myself , my vassals or my allies will be the first to die as you and your Kyushu puppies will find out. l will worry about victory conditions when the time comes. If l am not part of them then so be it, all l know is you wont be so take it like a man and commit seppuku.
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Originally posted by nook7You're being untruthful as usual. In NE it was decided that whichever two of the three allied nations reached the victory conditions would declare and it was in doubt until the last few turns who it would be (you managed to be soundly defeated by a bot in that game). In that game, no one turned over provinces to anybody to "help" them.
It is very interesting how you are continually trying to break our alliances with talk of victory conditions ; yet in theNapoleonic game you and l played in it was you trying to make excuses to others as to why l shouldnt break my alliance with you as l could not be part of your victory with Sweden. Do you remember why l said l wouldnt?
There are many rea ...[text shortened]... part of them then so be it, all l know is you wont be so take it like a man and commit seppuku.
You have a big mouth, but as the Amako fleet learned, you fear any type of even battle. That is why you do not want others to act in their own interests, rather than in your's and Uesugi's. If Takeda and Hojo and others take the steps that will help them and not you, they might have a chance to win. Playing as you want them to, taking a few stray bot provinces and sending troops and ships to help you gain territory, they have none.
Originally posted by nook7If anyone turns against you you can't kill both them and us both first!
It is very interesting how you are continually trying to break our alliances with talk of victory conditions ; yet in theNapoleonic game you and l played in it was you trying to make excuses to others as to why l shouldnt break my alliance with you as l could not be part of your victory with Sweden. Do you remember why l said l wouldnt?
There are many rea ...[text shortened]... part of them then so be it, all l know is you wont be so take it like a man and commit seppuku.